Do You Think That Sikhism Is Right/From God?

Basically I'm asking what reasons you have for believing in Sikhi.

I ask this because at the moment I'm reading the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I am near the beginning and so far I have not read anything that convinces me, that could change though I have much to read.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34259-do-you-think-sikhism-right-god.html

I just want to know from people who consider themselves sikh now, what is it in GGSJ that makes you so sure that Sikhi is the true religion?

For example muslims will usually say stuff like, "the quran speaks about the stages of embyology, which was discovered much later by science proving it was from god as no one could have known it at the time" etc When trying to explain why their religion is true and from god etc.

(For the record Im not a muslim and I think their religion is heavily flawed including the parts on embryology)

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34259
I haven't been able to find much from searching around on the main arguments pro sikhism (other than moral/ethical reasons e.g. equality), maybe because in general sikhs don't try to actively convert lots of people. So I am hoping you guys can share your thoughts. ***

 
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Shanger ji

This is my personal response to you from my experiences to date. Others may have different perspectives.

It almost sounds like you're looking for a) someone to convert you and b) proof of God.

The only true religion is the one which makes you live truthfully, in accordance with Hukam, and helps you to realise God.

You're looking with your eyes and your analytical mind (not that there's anything wrong with having an analytical mind) at Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and saying "show me". You need to read the Gurbani's poetry and feel it on a deeper, spiritual level, which means feeling things you might not recognise and exploring without a critical mind. The critical mind and the analysis come later.

No one can prove anything to you (not even God) if you're not a) openminded and open hearted enough to receive the message being sent, and b) blessed with Grace. Then it doesn't have to be proven to you, you don't need to be convinced, you will just KNOW.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34259

I could quote my favourite shabads all day, but if you're going to read them looking for proof with your eyes they will all be in vain.

Ask yourself this question, Shanger, what are you looking for? Know that no proof will ever be enough until you're ready to explore with your heart. Damn that sounds so cheezy.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34259
Ishna

Oh, any my personal reasons for "believing in Sikhi" (not sure that's the right term), is because of the wonderful feelings of peace, inspiration, courage and total mind-blowing awe I feel when I read Gurbani. It doesn't happen all the time. There are a lot of parts of Gurbani I don't understand yet. But the parts I do understand, I just FEEL and KNOW it's right. Intuitively.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34259

It's like... I know I like strawberry because I've tasted it and it tastes good to me. You're looking at the strawberry and saying "prove to me it tastes good". You're not going to know until you take a bite yourself. And even then, if psychologically you're determined NOT to like the strawberry, you'll feel the seeds in it, it will taste too tart, it will trigger your gag reflex and you'll say "see, it tastes crap!".
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34259

The other reasons are mundane: Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is not a rule book or a history book based on one particular age. It is timeless poetry. There are parts with historical references but ultimately, the message is timeless.

Ishna

What I am trying to say is that if GGSJ is from god, then it is not unreasonable to expect it to contain some sort of information that shows that is it genuinely from god, do you see my point?

I will read any shabads you quote as long as you explain why it is something that not just any old human could have wrote.

Thanks for reply
No disrespect intended but saying that
What I then would like to ask is what makes you get those feelings?

& could you experience the same feelings from other text written by an ordinary person? If the answer to the 2nd question is no, I am guessing it is because GGSJ is authentic/special in that it is from god, so I'd like to ask what makes it special?

No disrespect intended but from my reading so far, I find myself thinking "I get the point God is almighty/great, we cannot possibly understand him etc, cut to the chase". I expect there will be some good lessons and wise words but I cannot accept it as being from God without something extraordinary.

I ask for special proof because without it, how do you know the GGSJ was not just written by intelligent or misguided humans who wanted to form a cult? (I understand sikhi is very tolerant compared to other religions but the point still stands).


Also I dont think you can use the analogy of a strawberry, taste is subjective for one reason. A better comparison would be me saying prove to me a strawberry grows from a seed, and you showing me the stages from the plant seed etc. Like here I am asking for reasons why GGSJ is from god, and requesting text which shows that it is. I will not go out of my way to read any shabads in a biased way.

If I used your logic i would read any religious book and sit back and wait for feelings of awesomeness.


& Thanks for your answers so far

I believe here is youre major flaw. It sounds like to me that you are approaching sikhi which is an EASTERN religion from a very WESTERN religious standpoint. You are not going to find ANY indian religion(hindu, sikh, buddhist, jain etc) which CLAIMS to be "the true" religion. This sort of thinking comes from the ABRAHAMIC religions. Christianity, Islam and Judaism are a MIX/MASH or previous/ancient, middle eastern cults/traditions . The messages in all 3 abrahamic texts many times goes against reason, logic and common sense and is full of inconsistencis and contradiction. All the research i have done AND my PERSONAL experience has lead me to believe that all 3 religions are false and where created as a tool to control people. This is why you find these 3 religions constantly claming to be the "TRUE" word of god or the "TRUE" path as all 3 compete for more political power in numbers.

In indian religions you DONT find this claim. This sort of narrow minded thinking just dosent fit in with indian religions(to the most part). So you are not going to find ANYTHING in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that is going to give you "evidence" that sikhi is THE religion or THE religions of GOD.

Guru Nanak and the 10 masters did not intend to bring the TRUE religion of GOD or the TRUE path to the world for the fact that there is NO such thing. Knowledge appears spontaneously throught the ages only to be LOST then re-appears again when the time is proper. What we are going through right NOW has happened before thousands of times and will continue to happen. The universe/god/existence is circular in nature and very abstract, you are trying to understand existence in a very linear analitycal way. The 10 masters manifested on earth to deliver to humanity the "New way of living in Kali Yuga(dark age)". Therefore in GGS you will find "sublime and timeless poetry" which will HELP a sikh(learner/diciple) on the spiritual path live through these times.

Shanger, in the east GOD is not a man, master or person. God is a harmony, a force, a energy, existence, a very ABSTRACT thing. More of a process then a specific thing. I HIGHLY recommend you watch THE MATRIX 2. The whole movie is about the circular nature of the universe and neo even meets "GOD". Listen to "the creater" speak, listen to the "marovingian" speak, notice HOW the "key maker" dies and his last statement. Notice how zion and the whole war with machines is simply a process which had happened 5 times before(circular nature of reality).

Shanger ji

I will try again to explain my reasoning, from my personal perspective, which may differ from other people's experiences. I am still learning, and I've got a very, very long way to go before getting even close to the level of others here.

Well, it's not from God exactly. It was written by humans who had a very, very good insight to spirituality, logic and truth. Their light shone brighter than others, but they were not God in a literal, personified sense. They taught how to live good, honest lives. Work hard, share your bounty, live truthfully, have faith and try at all times to be mindful of the One Universal Creative Force and the natural course of events. Don't try to fight it, find the flow and go with it. Arg, hard to explain, losing coherency, sorry.

You said in your first post that the Quran talks about embyology (no idea what that is) which they couldn't have known about at the time. Why isn't that proof enough for you to follow Islam? What kind, and how much, proof do you need? Without faith and an open mind one is bound to challenge spirituality.

The poetry is what makes me get those feelings. I read it, and recognise truth in the words put in such a beautiful form.

I get the same feeling from other authors, like Khalil Gibran.

I get the same feeling when I read about NASA projects and look at awesome photos of outer space and go "wow... we will never know the extent of this Creation... how much more there is that we can't even SEE".

I get the same feeling when I hear about hero stories, people risking their lives to save others. I actually got the same feeling recently when they were interviewing a man on the radio about how he was trying to save a mother and her two sons from drowning in a flooded river and he was only able to save one son. The other boy had said "take my brother first" and by the time they got the boy to the bank his mum and brother were washed away.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is special to me because I see it as containing so much wisdom and beauty and truth and it is like I'm the strings of the violin and it's the bow. No other religious text is as completely beautiful, in my humble opinion. There are parts of most religious texts which are beautiful and do contain truth. But Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji contains the most chocolate in the prettiest wrapper, I think.

See my question re Quran above.

Hopefully other Sikhs won't hit me here, and I say this with all due respect and with great love and appreciation for all 10 Gurus, but does it really matter if the person who wrote it was a nutter on a bender (and I'm in NO WAY saying any of the Gurus were nutters on benders!!)? If it looks like truth, and it smells like truth, then it's truth against my measure.

Ah, but religion/spirituality is also subjective. Only YOU can experience it, just like only YOU can taste the strawberry and come to your own conclusion about the taste of it. You can't SEE spiritual fulfillment with your eyes like you can measure the growth of a strawberry from a seed. You can look at the history of Sikhs and see Guru Tegh Bahadur die for the right of Hindus to practice their religion.

Well, that's the idea. If you can find the religious book which fills you with awe, inspiration, truth and motivates you to live as an honest, productive individual who stands up for the just cause, then go for it!

It just so happens that lots of Sikhs get all that from their religion and their scripture.

I await your response to my post and in particular, my questions, please.

In good faith and with copious amounts of Chardi Kala,
Ishna

my two cents on "embryology"...
Any one who has access to aborted foetuses in various stages of its growth..would be an expert in "embryology".
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34259
Just a week or so..an aborted foetus is..a lump of blood..
after that each week..adds to its shape/mass...
a fully developed foetus looks liek a baby...
I have met totally illiterate farmers in Punjab who "know" all about cows and goats...and how their embroys look like at various stages...nothing much actually..a "foetus/embryo" is developed Right here on earth inside a living woman....not like its made on Mars out of sight of man...and IF one has access to many women in different stages of development..its easy to be an embryologist expert.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34259

Compare this to "knolwedge" about the Billions of Suns, Moons, Planet, stars galaxies..etc etc and the SUN being the Centre of the Solar System and NOT THE EARTH which the "god's books say it is...NO Man could have this "knowledge" as its scope is beyond this earth/living beings on Earth. Since the "gods" books were proved wrong by galileo and Science...that one thing is sufficient proof that its mans limited knowledge and not god's.

My 2 cents worth

Thanks I'm glad that's how you see me.

In indian religions you DONT find this claim. This sort of narrow minded thinking just dosent fit in with indian religions(to the most part). So you are not going to find ANYTHING in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that is going to give you "evidence" that sikhi is THE religion or THE religions of GOD. [/QUOTE]

Fair points, however the fact that Sikhi says that there is a god, and Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ instructs people to meditate on gods name etc means that there is a god. That is a big claim to make that surely should require proof? Or Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ should contain something which shows it is not just man-made in terms of a controlling device right?

But then I have to ask what makes the 10 Gurus masters, why do their teachings need to be followed?

I have no problem accepting that the majority of their teachings was for a more peaceful world, but I don't see how it can be related to god.

With regards to the "sublime and timeless poetry", could you give an example along with an explanation so I can see where you are coming from please.

Yeah I know god is not something physical, or something that humans can understand etc. BUT how do I know it is not just made up?

Thanks for reply.