Correct Pronunciation of Waheguru

Khalistani_lion · #46 (**permalink**) 07-May-2012, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh

The "problem" being created is in..PRONOUNCIATION.....whereby certain diehards insist on "PRONOUNCING" ALL lagan matras...and strangely KEEP QUIET on the same lagan matras elsewhere....they insist its sah(aunkad) as sahOOOOOOOOOOOO, RahOOOOOOOOO PatshahOOOOOOOOOOOOO....But when the very same aunkadd appears elsewhere they keep it silent..anomaly.

Yes a Missing . in Email cna render the address meaningless and no dleivery..BUT then NO ONE Insists the DOT must be "Pronounced"...its there as a MARKER only...not for saying it ALOUD....

MANY lagan matras are MARKERS ONLY..not for pronounciation aloud.

WJKK WJKF

Gyani Ji, Lagaan matras are not Markers. Haddan are Markers. Lagaan Matras are Vowels and have an equal importance to pronounce as any other letters. We can't make our own rules to make the same Lag vowel at one place and marker by not pronouncing it at the other place.

WJKK WJKF

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #47 (**permalink**) 07-May-2012, 06:33 AM

Jios,
Hadd is indicated by the DANDEE/DANDEES.........BUT then again Sikhs being much wiser than the GURU..IGNORE these too.......

Prime Example: The FOUR DANDEES (Haddaan) placed BEFORE and AFTER the word

[[ Jap ]]. Dandee after GURPARSAAD ]] indicates HADD...STOP...END.
Did the wise sikhs OBEY this HADD Marker and STOP ?? NO ji..they decided the STOP LIGHT is ONLY for those .."unwise unbrahmgyani simpletons"....the Brahmgyanis, the Mahapurashs, the Sri 1008's all know better....when the simpletons STOP at the DANDEES..we drive right past and thumb our noses at the waiting que...

Nadr with a siharee and nadr with a Biharee occur right next to each other and the word is the Same...but grammatically different. The Biharee needs to be pronounced because its LONG sound...the siharee is short and makes no difference to the sound or meaning.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34054-correct-pronunciation-of-waheguru.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054
I have noticed pathis pronouncing SHAH(u) as SHAHOOOOOOOOOO..but when its Jan(u)..they say jan..and not Janoooooooooooo. Shah and jan aunkadds at the end are Markers to indicate Grammar Capital Proper NOUN/plural etc and is not really for pronunciation..otherwise pronounce each aunkadd as LONG OOOOOOOOOO will soon become clear as nonsense.

prakash.s.bagga · #48 (**permalink**) 07-May-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh

Jios,
Hadd is indicated by the DANDEE/DANDEES.........BUT then again Sikhs being much wiser than the GURU..IGNORE these too.......

Prime Example: The FOUR DANDEES (Haddaan) placed BEFORE and AFTER the word

[[ Jap ]]. Dandee after GURPARSAAD ]] indicates HADD...STOP...END.
Did the wise sikhs OBEY this HADD Marker and STOP ?? NO ji..they decided the STOP LIGHT is ONLY for those .."unwise unbrahmgyani simpletons"....the Brahmgyanis, the Mahapurashs, the Sri 1008's all know better....when the simpletons STOP at the DANDEES..we drive right past and thumb our noses at the waiting que...

Nadr with a siharee and nadr with a Biharee occur right next to each other and the word is the Same...but grammatically different. The Biharee needs to be pronounced because its LONG sound...the siharee is short and makes no difference to the sound or meaning.
I have noticed pathis pronouncing SHAH(u) as SHAHOOOOOOOOOO..but when its Jan(u)..they say jan..and not Janoooooooooooo. Shah and jan aunkadds at the end are Markers to indicate Grammar Capital Proper NOUN/plural etc and is not really for pronunciation..otherwise pronounce each aunkadd as LONG OOOOOOOOOO will soon become clear as nonsense.

It is important to think that the meanings of the word Nadr with matra of sihai and with matra of Biharee are different as their grammar is different.
The word Nadr with matra of Biharee is NOUN whereas the same word With a Matra of Sihari is VERB.
So how the meanings can be same?
Yes,There are words with matra of Sihari with exclusive meaning like the word PRITHAMi (with Sihari) and PRITHAMI(with Bihari).Here these two words have entirely different meanings.The word with Sihari has the meaning as "First" and the word with Biharee has the meaning as"Earth" .

I think that in words with a matra of Sihari with grammar as SINGULAR(Feminine Gender) the avoidance of pronunciation of matra in such words would not change the meanng of particular word.

Therefore one should know the real significance of pronunciation of words with matra od Sihari and Biharee too.This can not be avoided for every word.

Prakash.S.Bagga

prakash.s.bagga · #49 (**permalink**) 07-May-2012, 12:15 PM

It is important to acquire clear understanding about the role and pronunciation of Gurbanee words with matra of Aukad /Dulaikad and words with matra of Sihari and Biharee.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054
Simply saying these are not to be pronounced is going to to any good to the correct understanding of Gurbanee.
We should come OUT OF BOX of previous establhed norms about this.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #50 (**permalink**) 07-May-2012, 13:22 PM

The Siharees and aunkadds that are not "pronounced" are there because its POETRY..and POETRY is LIMITED in various ways...unlike Vaartak..PROSE, the writer can write as much as he wishes..but in POETRY such lagaan matras are used to differentiate nouns from verbs and in other ways. Nadr with siharee means HIS Nadr...and nadr with biharee..means IN HIS View/nadr....in Prose the word IN is substituted with Siharee or biharee.

prakash.s.bagga · #51 (**permalink**) 07-May-2012, 14:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh

The Siharees and aunkadds that are not "pronounced" are there because its POETRY..and POETRY is LIMITED in various ways...unlike Vaartak..PROSE, the writer can write as much as he wishes..but in POETRY such lagaan matras are used to differentiate nouns from verbs and in other ways. Nadr with siharee means HIS Nadr...and nadr with biharee..means IN HIS View/nadr....in Prose the word IN is substituted with Siharee or biharee.

The great beauty of Gurbanee poetry is this inspite of being in lyric form
its words can be pronounces as per matras so that any one can understand the essence of the message even while listening too.

For one moment if your point of logic is accepted then you would defenitely agree to the fact that these matras do direct the meaning of the particular message.Do we really do so?

Then while writing Gurbanee in Romam transcription we have titally elliminated the indication of these matras then how correctly we can understand or make others to understand Gurbanee correctly it should be a matter of Surprise.

I bring to your kind attention the interpretation of the Quote "GuRu Jahaju KHEWAT GuRU GuR Binu Tariya Naa Koe" if one considers the grammar of the words correctly then the meanings are not what you are mentioning.
Unless it is grammatically understood what is GuRu and GuRU in Gurbanee one can never get true meaning of the Quote at all.

I understand you are a most respectable person in your field .Therefore I expect from a person of your calibre to clear out the clouds of existing
misunderstandings.You have great opportunity to .do so.
We should come out ofour prejudiced view I assure you feel really amazed to say WAHi GuRoo/WAH GuRoo.

Prakash.s.Bagga

prakash.s.bagga · #52 (**permalink**) 07-May-2012, 15:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh

The Siharees and aunkadds that are not "pronounced" are there because its POETRY..and POETRY is LIMITED in various ways...unlike Vaartak..PROSE, the writer can write as much as he wishes..but in POETRY such lagaan matras are used to differentiate nouns from verbs and in other ways. Nadr with siharee means HIS Nadr...and nadr with biharee..means IN HIS View/nadr....in Prose the word IN is substituted with Siharee or biharee.

I think we dont need to understand the meanings of Gurbanee as POETRY by converting this into PROSE.By doing so we are bound to deviate from the true meaning of the messages.
I think we should understand Gurbanee the way it is presented.

Prakash.s.Bagga

prakash.s.bagga · #53 (**permalink**) 07-May-2012, 16:07 PM

GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
We can look a quote from Gurbanee as

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੩੮॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054

नानक नदरी नदरि निहाल ॥३८॥

Nānak naḏrī naḏar nihāl. ||38||

O Nanak, the Merciful Lord, by His Grace, uplifts and exalts them. ||38||

You can see for yourself that
The meaning of the word NADAR with matra of Biharee is ...Merciful LORD and
That for the word NADAR with a matra of Sihari ...is by grace

The meanings are different than the way you are suggesting in your message.
Prakash.s.Bagga

Khalistani_lion · #54 (**permalink**) 17-May-2012, 15:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh

The Siharees and aunkadds that are not "pronounced" are there because its POETRY..and POETRY is LIMITED in various ways...unlike Vaartak..PROSE, the writer can write as much as he wishes..but in POETRY such lagaan matras are used to differentiate nouns from verbs and in other ways. Nadr with siharee means HIS Nadr...and nadr with biharee..means IN HIS View/nadr....in Prose the word IN is substituted with Siharee or biharee.

Gyani Jio,
As you are saying Ji that Lagaan Matras are used and written only to differentiate nouns from verbs, then how would the listeners differentiate between these nouns and verbs if they don't listen these lagaa matraa? The listener would only guess if the spoken word is noun or verb, and everyone will guess to serve their own purpose. Without pronunciation of lagaa matraa, either Speaker or the Listener who interprets the spoken words without lagaan is wrong and should be stopped.
Now you tell us who you want to stop, all speakers pronouncing without lagaa matraa or all listeners listening and interpreting it wrong by not knowing if its noun or verb?

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੩੮॥
without knowing that their is Sihari to Nadar which makes it verb, the listener would assume its Nadar (noun) if they hear Nadar without Sihari to it. Then the meaning someone assume would be:
O Nanak! merciful Lord's (ਨਦਰ) Grace(noun) gets Nihal.