What to Do with The Un-Natural Growth of Hair on Female Faces?

Siri Kamala · #73 (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2010, 01:27 AM

~ That is most excellent insight, spnadmin ji! Would love to see the Duvall clip if you should be able to find it.

It seems very true, though, does it not, that for many Sikhs the keeping of kesh is sort of a... litmus test... of one's authentic Sikhness. Almost as if to say that is the starting point, and if one is not leaving one's hair untouched, all the rest is moot -- that person cannot call themselves a Sikh.

There also seems to be a lot of store set on the 52 Commandments of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, but I do not have a sense of a) the value/priority appropriately given to these 52 Commandments, either individually or as a whole compared to what we read in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, nor b) how normative these commandments were intended to be (i.e. do all 52 apply equally to all people of all nations for all time? Were some only intended to apply to some people, or some nations, or for some limited period of time?)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/33532-what-do-un-natural-growth-hair.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33532

I'm trying to get a sense of what may have been simply appropriate for a given context but which is not really *essential* to manifesting one's Sikh faith. It's all so new and overwhelming that my powers of discernment fail me much of the time...

spnadmin · #74 (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2010, 03:26 AM

The site you give for the 52 Commandments of Guru Gobind Singh is a "Sikh" site that posts much inaccurate material, and material that is often heavily infused with "sanatan" i.e., Brahminical leanings. The 52 commandments themselves have not withstood the scrutiny of historians.

A valuable collection of criticisms can be found at the allaboutsikhs.com site which I find to be trustworthy.Here is a link to an SPN discussion on the matter. You will notice that one of the early Posters could not see any credible way Guru Gobind Singh would issue an order in the name of Ganesh.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-s...ingh-ji-2.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33532
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33532

There are a number of rehats written alleging to represent the hukamnamas of Guru Gobind Singh, of which I have 5 or 6 saved on my computer. If they are authentic at all, they were written by Sikh leaders during the period of the missls, following the death of Guru Gobind Singh, when the Sikh quom re-organized after significant decimation by the Persians. The only one that has more credence is written by Bhai Nan Lal. It is often referred to as Gospel by sects within Sikhism. Thus they are not now nor were they ever normative.

Siri Kamala · #75 (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2010, 03:51 AM

THANK YOU, Mata spnadmin ji! This is fabulous. And I feel quite relieved.

What of the Dasam Granth? How does that figure into the picture?

findingmyway · #76 (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2010, 03:56 AM

Siri Kamala ji,
This part of the forum is a mine of information on this topic:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/

Siri Kamala · #77 (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2010, 04:26 AM

Oh, wow findingmyway Ji -- my head hurts just looking at the sheer volume of information there.

In thumbing my way through the (online English version) of the Dasam Granth I was able to find, I was puzzled by the many references to Vishnu and thought (imagine Jerry Seinfeld's voice here) "Heeeeey... WAIT just-a-second here..." Because it did not sound very...Sikh to me.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33532

So to get more to the heart of the matter I am seeking to discern, when people say "Study Gurbani," obviously that means study the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but what *else* does "Gurbani" include for the purposes of most Sikhs?

findingmyway · #78 (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2010, 04:32 AM

Siri Kamala ji,
For me personally the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is all I need. However, this is off topic for this thread so if you desire we can continue this discussion in another thread.
Thanks,
Jasleen

Ambarsaria · #79 (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2010, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siri Kamala

~ That is most excellent insight, spnadmin ji! Would love to see the Duvall clip if you should be able to find it.

It seems very true, though, does it not, that for many Sikhs the keeping of kesh is sort of a... litmus test... of one's authentic Sikhness. Almost as if to say that is the starting point, and if one is not leaving one's hair untouched, all the rest is moot -- that person cannot call themselves a Sikh.

There also seems to be a lot of store set on the 52 Commandments of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, but I do not have a sense of a) the value/priority appropriately given to these 52 Commandments, either individually or as a whole compared to what we read in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, nor b) how normative these commandments were intended to be (i.e. do all 52 apply equally to all people of all nations for all time? Were some only intended to apply to some people, or some nations, or for some limited period of time?)

I'm trying to get a sense of what may have been simply appropriate for a given context but which is not really *essential* to manifesting one's Sikh faith. It's all so new and overwhelming that my powers of discernment fail me much of the time...

Siri Kamala ji I hope the following is of some help.

The practical sikhism has been described as sant-sipahi. A saint and a soldier in that order. This duality can be associated with some liberties as spiritual and worldly affairs.

The duality concept also goes back to the miri-piri (worldly-saint) as per association with Guru Hargobind ji.

Guru Gobind Singh ji, formalized and established Khalsa and finalized the formation and reality of amritdhari and baptized panth.

In my mind, Guru Granth Sahib ji is an essential element of sikh spiritual life and soul food. However it is not a literal or verbatim description of miri (worldly) or sipahi or panthic rules book. The panthic as one sikh associated to many is through baptization and Sikh Rehat Maryada (SRM).

SRM is the best guiding principles established around 1945 to address some salient spiritual and personal (like nitnem, personal behavior, etc.) like in the below,

http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_one.html

What complements the personal is the panthic portion in the rest of SRM as for example in the following and reading further through the SRM,

http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/se..._chap_four.htm

Hope it is of some help.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: In terms of your inquiry in the following,

"So to get more to the heart of the matter I am seeking to discern, when people say "Study Gurbani," obviously that means study the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but what *else* does "Gurbani" include for the purposes of most Sikhs?"

There is only Guru Granth Sahib ji but I am a novice in the knowledge of punjabi words and vocabulary as embodied in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. What else one can do perhaps is read Viakhia treatises. I don't know off hand to the best and specially ones in English but perhaps others can guide. One also has to remember that context is as important as the original words, sentences and stanzas. I have seen lot of

when people focus on individual words or sentences to prove their points or show the guiding light. Guru Granth Sahib ji is too rich too complete as a whole to be subjected to such use. This is just my belief.

findingmyway · #80 (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2010, 04:51 AM

Ambarsaria ji,
I agree that the SRM is important but I wouldn't put it into the category of gurbani, more as supporting documents.
Please can I request all to return to the original topic here and take up further discussions in a new thread or a relevant older thread.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33532
Thank you kindly :happykaur:

Ambarsaria · #81 (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2010, 04:56 AM

I agree with you.

I am sorry if my writing gave any indication of any comparison between Guru Granth Sahib ji and SRM. There is no need to compare and even in my dreams I wouldn't do that.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33532

Sat Sri Akal.