Alcoholic Perfumes on Guru Granth Sahib Ji: An Opinion

Chaan Pardesi · #1 (**permalink**) 28-Sep-2010, 22:02 PM

Dear Gurmukh Loko, I have been sent the following mail, I am sharing it with all , so that individuals can offer their views and enable Dr Manjit Kaur to collate her information.

Quote:

Alcoholic Perfumes on Guru Granth Sahib Ji ~ OPINION
September 22, 2010 by Dr. Manjit Kaur

I am a General Practitioner of Holistic, Natural, and Alternative Medicines, based in Iver, Buckinghamshire, U.K. Over the last 13 years, I have presented various Television and Radio shows with dedicated audience across the globe on welfare of community through guidance on Alternative Medicines and Spiritual Balance. I also host "Dharmic" programs side by side.

It has come to my observation that all the Takht's and most of the Gurudwara's in India are using foreign perfumes British, American and European which contain up to 70 to 80 percent of alcohol and a few drops of actual essence. Shocked and in great heartfelt pain, I've made attempts to bring an awareness to all the five Takht's and many Gurudwara's in and around India that the sprays that they are using around Maharaja's Saroop and in Sachkhands is a serious issue. There is essence and the fragrance is in the Gurbani itself. It depends how a Gursikh or Khalsa ji understands and interprets Guru's Bani.

All around India starting from Hazur Sahib, Anandpur sahib, Hemkunt Sahib, Bangla Sahib, Rakabganj, Rehru Sahib, Bauli Sahib (Goindwal), Khadoor sahib, naming only a few. It's apparent that in my travels to all these Gurudwara's and my personal observation of the usage of these sprays on the Saroops have shocked me and even on my return to some of these Gurudwara's, I've observed that they've still not stopped using these foreign scents. Illiterate to read the information on the bottles, the Gyani Ji's are even using after-shave sprays on guru sahib as well as on their beards.
I want to create a worldwide awareness through Sikhnet that this act or performance or ritual should stop here and now. We must not use any of these alcohol based sprays other than 100% pure Ittar. It is "Ghor Paap" on Guru's "Pavittar Angs".

In my yatra I did some painstaking research and found there are cheap Ittar's that also contain alcohol. So please refrain from using those and use only 100 percent non-spirit Ittars. Kindly, use only authentic Ittar. If you so wish dilute two drops of non-spirit Ittar in Amrit in a glass atomizer bottle and then spray if you so desire.

It is my appeal to the Khalsa Satsangat, that this ritual should stop immediately. Our Guru has never instructed us to use any form of these impure products other than having a clean bathed body and "Succhai Hath" (clean and pure hands) before we recite Bani. If in every Gurudwara boundary, entry under the influence of drugs, alcohol, tobacco and uncovered hair is impermissible so another instruction should be added that no alcohol based perfumes should be brought to the Sachkhands and Takhts. In fact. they shouldn't be allowed in any Gurudwara. I want to request all the Sikh tourists, that if you're doing "daan-pun" of perfumes at these Gurudwaras, it is in fact a sin. And if you're going to these Gurudwaras as a holy yatra, please become aware that you're committing another sin by donating these.

Spare your money and use it for some better cause which actually will redeem you from your sins.

Author's contact:
Dr. Manjit Kaur
Mobile India - +91 96469 93578, +91 98782 91590
manjitkaur51@yahoo.co.uk

"I am writing on behalf of Dr. Manjit Kaur, an alternative and Holistic Medicines Practitioner based in Buckinghamshire, U.K. She has been hosting a lots of program on Radios and T.V on Health and Sikh Religious affairs for last 13 years.

At present time, she is in India on her dharmic yatra. In this yatra, she has started this awareness campaign to prohibt the use of Alcoholic Perfumes on and around Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, because these perfumes contains around 70-80% of Alcohol and a very little amount of Essence. She has suggested a fine alternative to these perfumes i.e Ittar. Ittar is pure essence extracted from Flowers. She has visited Hazur Sahib, Harminder Sahib, Anandpur Sahib, Hemkunt Sahib, Fatehghar Sahib, Bangla Sahib, Rakab Ganj and many other gurudawars and met all of the important Jathedaars and Giani Singh Sahibaan. At this point, Hemkunt Sahib, Bangla Sahib, Harminder Sahib, Akal Takht Sahib, Anandpur Sahib, and few Gurudawaras have agreed and put a notice of complete prohibition of spraying/offerings of Alcohol based perfumes." ~ Gurpreet Singh

[Relying on the statement of Gurpreet Singh ji, we have published the above. Viewer's discretion advised. ~ SikhNet Editor]

Another view:

As far as perfumes containing alcohol is concerned, they consist of many ingredients like water, perfume, and alcohol that comprises the highest percentage. It is known that alcohol is produced from sugarcane by way of distillation. Thus, according to the juristic rule, which states that all things are presumed to be originally pure and that being prohibited does not render something impure, perfumes that contain alcohol are pure, particularly if we bear in mind that they are used for cleaning and perfuming the body. Thus, it is permissible to use these perfumes and there is nothing wrong in that."

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America, adds:
"It is forbidden to drink alcohol. In the perfumes usually denatured alcohol is used. This alcohol is not unclean (najas). According to some jurists even natural alcohol is not najas. According to the Shari`ah, there is nothing wrong in using alcohol based perfumes."

So in conclusion, alcohol based perfumes are allowed, according to the stronger of the two scholarly views, as long as they are not consumed in ways that lead to intoxication. Likewise, they are only impure in an abstract way (not physical) and that is when they lead to intoxication. Allah knows best. ~ Abu Abdissalam

Tejwant Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 28-Sep-2010, 22:48 PM

It is not the point if the perfume contains alcohol or not. No perfume is needed on Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru because it is Shabad Guru. Guru is in the message and in the teachings in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

I know that the Jews especially, along with Christians and Muslims consider themselves as the people of the Book yet they have no idea who the original authors were unlike Sri Guru Granth Sahib which was compiled by the original writings. So, in fact we, as Sikhs are the only true people of the Book.

If we need perfume on the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, then why not spray the same on Gurbani Cd's, the servers that hold Gurbani? Is Gurbani in the book better than in any other form?

If someone knows Gurbani by heart, then he/she should spray some on his/her tongue.

The same thing goes for pretending to dust off in the inside of rumallahs while opening or closing the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. It is a silly ritual. Where did the dust come from when Sri Guru Granth Sahib was wrapped in so many coverings of cloth? This ritual takes place daily in the Darbar Sahib and I am sure in other Gurdwaras as well.

The same thing can be said for washing the inside of Darbar Sahib with milk which can feed the hungry. It is sad to notice how much we have slipped away from the true message of our Gurus given to us in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru and have become great parrots.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/32405-alcoholic-perfumes-guru-granth-sahib-ji.html

Tejwant Singh

Aman Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 28-Sep-2010, 23:31 PM

Thank you Tejwant Ji,

i just can't help giggling while reading your discrete style of writing... Guru Nanak would be so proud of you!

spnadmin · #4 (**permalink**) 29-Sep-2010, 02:41 AM

I am not being facetious when I ask a few questions.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32405

Is the problem that Guruji is being doused with perfume?

Or is the problem that the perfume has alcohol and Guruji is being forced to take on an intoxicant - which is against the rehat?

If the perfume was non-alcoholic, would that be OK? According to the gians mentioned in the article. For example, would attar of roses which is nonalcholic be OK.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32405

How and when did this all get started?

Chaan Pardesi · #5 (**permalink**) 29-Sep-2010, 18:46 PM

Tejwant Singh Ji's response...

Quote:

If we need perfume on the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, then why not spray the same on Gurbani Cd's, the servers that hold Gurbani? Is Gurbani in the book better than in any other form?

If someone knows Gurbani by heart, then he/she should spray some on his/her tongue.

...deletion It is neither there nor here situation, as he looses the essence of the article and says,'If we need perfume on the Sri Guru Granth Sahib'. From my observation and understanding no one showers the GURU Ji with the perfumes, it is the environment and the sangat one is speaking about and in the article.

He also failed to provide 'any single line' of evidence as he had put in one previous post to support his view.

First and foremost, the primary issue here is the issue about the perfume that has alcohol in its contents, in this article.

The issue of the the practice of showering the sangat [NOT the Guru Granth Sahib as Tejwant Singh Ji has implied] is secondary as those who have the darshan of the Shabad Guru routinely/ daily will understand there is essence and the fragrance greater than any on this earth in the Gurbani itself; and therefore does not need anything else.Thus, some will argue that Guru Ji is everywhere , therefore does not need hugh luxurious buildings as Gurduaras will also make simple sense and an acceptable rational.

That said, let me share some literature from another source that argues against Tejwant Singh's view and supports the ritual of the showering of the sangat in perfumes.

It is of prior most urgency, I make VERY clear that I am a Sikh, and not adherant of any particular sect or baba; but as is said Sant't hi satsangh sangh surang ratte jas gavat hai//, I do understand their place in Sikh history.

That view is from Baba Nand Singh, who very clearly says that:

Quote:

Bani is Nirankaar and NOTHING is equal or more supreme than Gurbani. He repeatedly as a Sikh of good understanding and one who has closely attuned himself to the Gurbani says to all other Sikhs that we must be connected at all times and join in the vibrational frequency with Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the divine light then becomes manifested in ourselves; was very particular about physical and environmental cleanliness.

He often said that the flowers give out a sweet smell, but it is for a short time. And a drop of perfume gives a lot of more smell than bunch of flowers and it remains there for a long time. Baba Ji made a good use of good perfumes. He said, “For the Holy Scriptures, perfume is very important.” The entire environment of Guru Sahib’s room was scented and sweet smells were all around. The Maharani of Patiala used to bring big bottles of perfumes. Similarly perfumes were sprinkled on the sangat also.

Once a Superintendent of Police, Ludhiana came to Nanaksar to have darshan of Gursikh Nand Singh Ji. He was surprised to see the expensive gowns and the ample use of perfumes on Baba Ji. He became suspicious. Baba Ji at once said ,“We take bath to keep ourselves clean. So if cleanliness is essential for the body, it is also important to keep the clothes clean not to impress people, but to go into the presence of Guru Sahib.” For Gurmukh Gursikh Nand Singh Ji, the use of perfume was a part and parcel of worship of Guru Granth Sahib.

But, the questions come back, why, how and where did this ritual originate from historically. My understanding points it to be a practice that was prevalent among the muslims of western Punjab, eventually crept into the Sikhs, possibly.

spnadmin · #6 (**permalink**) 29-Sep-2010, 21:03 PM

I need to interrupt at this point because my intuition tells me that tempers are going to flare if they have not done so already.

The essence that smells sweeter, which does not lose its fragrance, and which perfumes all that is near it is not perfume one buys at the store, containing alcohol or not. I think we can stipulate that.

The article, now I have read it 2 times, demonstrates how far off the path many a sangat has gone and how little the lessons of Guru Nanak have been distorted.

I do not see where any poster has missed that revelation. Spraying perfume on Sri Guru Granth Sahib is only one of dozens of these practices, and they hide from the world the beauty of Sikhi. I would like the comments that follow to acknowledge the need for the panth to do something about misguided practices.

Tejwant Singh · #7 (**permalink**) 29-Sep-2010, 22:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spnadmin

I need to interrupt at this point because my intuition tells me that tempers are going to flare if they have not done so already.

The essence that smells sweeter, which does not lose its fragrance, and which perfumes all that is near it is not perfume one buys at the store, containing alcohol or not. I think we can stipulate that.

The article, now I have read it 2 times, demonstrates how far off the path many a sangat has gone and how little the lessons of Guru Nanak have been distorted.

I do not see where any poster has missed that revelation. Spraying perfume on Sri Guru Granth Sahib is only one of dozens of these practices, and they hide from the world the beauty of Sikhi. I would like the comments that follow to acknowledge the need for the panth to do something about misguided practices.

Re: Alcoholic Perfumes on Guru Granth Sahib Ji ~ OPINION

Quote:

I am not being facetious when I ask a few questions.

Is the problem that Guruji is being doused with perfume?

Or is the problem that the perfume has alcohol and Guruji is being forced to take on an intoxicant - which is against the rehat?

If the perfume was non-alcoholic, would that be OK? According to the gians mentioned in the article. For example, would attar of roses which is nonalcholic be OK.

How and when did this all get started?

spnadmin ji,

Guru Fateh.

I will respond to your queries. I can see Chaan ji is getting angry once again as he did in his previous post although Gurbani gives us the tools to lasso the 5 thieves.Anger and rage are parts of them.

It also seems Chaan Pardesi ji has not read the article which he himself has posted. Here is what Dr. Manjit Kaur says in her article:

Quote:

All around India starting from Hazur Sahib, Anandpur sahib, Hemkunt Sahib, Bangla Sahib, Rakabganj, Rehru Sahib, Bauli Sahib (Goindwal), Khadoor sahib, naming only a few. It's apparent that in my travels to all these Gurudwara's and my personal observation of the usage of these sprays on the Saroops have shocked me and even on my return to some of these Gurudwara's, I've observed that they've still not stopped using these foreign scents.lliterate to read the information on the bottles, the Gyani Ji's are even using after-shave sprays on guru sahib as well as on their beards.
I want to create a worldwide awareness through Sikhnet that this act or performance or ritual should stop here and now. We must not use any of these alcohol based sprays other than 100% pure Ittar. It is "Ghor Paap" on Guru's "Pavittar Angs".

I am sorry to say but Chaan ji is incorrect and the article that he has posted says something totally different than what he claimed after in his post accusing me, which is fine with me.

At Darbar Sahib, perfume is sprayed on the white sheets and then on the rumallahs and then a bit is sprayed around the sangat, which is sitting far away, so the Sevadaars, which is worth noticing are all MEN,(no WOMAN is found there although Sikhi talks about equality) end up smelling nicer when they get home. Perfume is meant for the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, not for the Sangat and it is irrelevant if it has alcohol or not because alcohol is the fastest thing to evaporate. If this were the case then the AkaalTakhat would have given one more futile Hukumnaama for people not to wear any perfume with alcohol when they come to Darbar Sahib or when they go to their respective Gurdwaras because Ik Ong Kaar will shower them with the same.

Yes, pleasant smell is important where crowd gets gathered. This is the reason we have fresh flowers. Nothing more pleasant than that. But perfume has nothing to do with it. Perfume is for the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and its smells does not last long, hence it is a daily practice at Darbar Sahib to spray perfume all day long.

A couple of more things that are there in the ritualistic realm. We are required to keep long unshorn hair but at the same time we use Chowr (Sahib - I have no idea why we call it sahib)made of hair. I have no idea if it is human hair or come off an animal's hide. What ever the case may be, it is shorn. We can use synthetic hair but that would be filling up the landfills with plastic after singing the Salok:

Pavan Guru, Pani Pita, Mata Dharat mahat..............

The worse is the ritualistic way we pretend to whisk a fly or two and then touch the fly whisk( Chowr) to our forehead. There is a kind of arm dancing choreography to it. Now, one can buy them with the gold or silver crusted handles to perform this arm dance.

Then we can also talk about the raw animal hide used for the tablas and dholkis when leather is shunned in the Gurdwaras but we shall leave that for some other day.

Now your question, how it all started, is a good one. No one knows nor is there any historical record of having a Chandoa on the top or a chowr was used when Adi Granth was inaugurated by Guru Arjan Dev ji at the Darbar Sahib which was a beautiful building before Maharaja Ranjit Singh gold leafed it with the looted gold and made this building into a white elephant. Now, millions are spent to upkeep it rather than using the same money to create some cottage industry for the poor. In competition, Sarna of DGPC wants Bangla Sahib Gurdwara gold leafed in the same fashion. One thing we should not forget that more looted gold was given to the Hindu Temples according to Gyani Arshi ji than to the Sikh Gurdwaras by the Maharaja.

I think If I am not mistaken it was a copycat from the Mughal era. The royal treatment of the Kings morphed into this in the Gurdwaras espcially for those who consider Sri Guru Granth Sahib as DEH Guru- embodiment.

Now, if we talk about Baba Nand Singh, a cultist with his Nanaksar cult and compare it to the Gurmat ideals given to us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and also claim under the same breath that we have nothing to do with derawalas is nothing but a self defeating prophecy. Nanaksar cult does many things which are anti Gurmat, so whatever Baba Nand singh says or any other Baba should be taken with a sack of salt. Didn't Baba Nand Singh know that one can change the flowers every 2 to 3 hours? For him and Chaan ji to claim that the perfume lasts longer is a hogwash. Perfume also loses its fragrance in a short period of time unless one takes bath in it or sprays it all day long as it is done in many Gurdwaras on the rumallahs.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

karam · #8 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2010, 00:14 AM

I beleive use of perfumes and other rituals could be wrong or right depending upon your perspective, if someone considers Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as "deh" of living Guru then they can do anything to honor their guru, to serve their guru, you can sprinkle perfume, do chaur, put ac on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, list could be endless, if people feel blessed to do seva, feel they have earned something good by doing seva then I don't think I can say they are wrong, but if they are just doing something as mere ritual, I don't think it is right to follow anything ritualistically,a person can do anything as part of Guru's seva and logically he/she may be wrong
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32405
I don't think we need to be very technical for presence of alcohol in perfumes, drinking and getting intoxicated is prohibited, alcohol is used in many meds as vehicle, alcohol is part of hand sanitizers, I don't think we need to be that technical in regards to alcohol content in perfumes, logic is not to drink alcohol, use of alcohol for other purposes other than drinking is not prohibited

spnadmin · #9 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2010, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejwant Singh

Re: Alcoholic Perfumes on Guru Granth Sahib Ji ~ OPINION
spnadmin ji,

At Darbar Sahib, perfume is sprayed on the white sheets and then on the rumallahs and then a bit is sprayed around the sangat, which is sitting far away, .....

Respected Chaan Pardesi and Respected Tejwant Singh, it is not difficult to understand why you are in disagreement. The problem IMHO is the starter article. Dr. Majit Kaur has served up some contradictory issues, making it hard to know what we are to react to.

First let me make clear that all my earlier questions were intended for moderation only, as a way of highlighting how a person can become confused and wonder why there are arguments. Apparently I was not clear and will make a better effort next time.

Dr. Manjit Kaur, whose "dharmic yatra" is covered in the thread starter, reported her concerns about spraying perfume on and about Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Hence there is confusion as to whether we are discussing whether Guruji is being perfumed, or sangat and Guruji's surrounding are being perfumed, or whether both are being perfumed. That led to a discussion of whether it was right or wrong to sprinkle perfume on Guruji.

Both Guruji and the surroundings are, according to Dr. Manjit Kaur, being sprinkled.

Another source of confusion, which I mentioned earlier, also originated with Dr. Manjit Kaur.

She appears to think that it is OK to spray a nonalcoholic attar but not an alcohol based perfume. Then, support for her view is given on the basis that intoxicants are forbidden by rehat. Hence she has stirred confusion over whether alcohol in the perfume is kurehit.

In other words, the problem with alcohol goes beyond consuming it, according to Dr. Manjit Kaur.

And because Dr. Manjit Kaur is the source of the confusion, it would help for us to identify what it is we are really disagreeing about. That is why I asked my questions. :happykaur: