Horoscopes - Janam Kundli

ekmusafir_ajnabi · #19 (**permalink**) 18-Aug-2007, 02:51 AM

Comments by Amerikaur

There is no need to be defensive about Astrology and Sikhism.

If one goes to an astrologer, does that person do so because they want to make their life more difficult? Or is it because they are seeking some kind of guidance or assistance? If one consults a horoscope, does one do so to to be lied to? Or to be decieved? Or, does one go to seek some kind of truth?

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/3219-horoscopes-janam-kundli.html
One would visit an astrologer when one needs guidance. An astrologer is not a magician but a Wise Person who is able to guide you out of your difficulty. Just as in any trade religious or non-religious there are crooks, they equally exist in this profession.

Comments by Gyani Jarnail Singh

Bhen Ameri Kaur has given the example about auspicious /unauspicious days from GURBANI.... that should be enough for us to decide that GURU JI is saying..NO JANAM KUNDALII...how much clearer can this be.You said the same about Kalyug in another thread when Guru ji have written many verses explaining Kalyug in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You are a Gyani, please have respect for your trade.

The JK is prepared just to find out the AUSPICIOUS and INAUSPICIOUS days..and when GURU JI says there are NO SUCH DAYS....it means that JK is a Total waste of time.

You know nothing about Astrology.

In a janamsakhi incident it is related that Guru nanak ji went to "see" a very famous Astrologer at hardwaaar. When GURU Ji arrived, the astrologer closed his eyes shut and pretended to be deep in meditation. Guru ji slowly removed his money bag from his front and placed it at his back. After a while when he opened his eyes...the first thing that he noticed was that his MONEY was MISSING....and he was highly perplexed at who in his right mind would dare to steal from such a great astrologer who KNEW the Past and the FUTURE !!! Guru Ji told him his money bag was behind him....and when he was relived that it was all there GURU JI told him....YOU who profess to KNOW the Past and the FUTURE....DIDNT EVEN KNOW that his money as behind his back !!! JHHOOTH NA BOL PANDEY SACH KAHIEYEH....is RIGHT.

Guru ji here was exposing the pretence of one Jyotshi/pandit and not a criticism of astrology.

Astrology is nothing but a highly refined art of hypnosis where the practiotioner actually "makes" the victim "tell his/her own future and past"....he gives out VAGUE indications of GENERAL EVENTS....the VICTIM makes haste to CONNECT these vague generalisations into CONCRETE PAST events happening in his life.....and says Vah vah this man really knows his stuff...I have innocently tried out this stuff and man..it really works. ALl you got to do is don the right clothes, the right personality, etc...the moment you "tell" a woman...I think your husband has a another woman in his life...she will instantly pick up vague instances in her life and turn them into CONCRETE PROOF that her man indeed is unfaithful.....like the time he came home late from work and was a bit flustered....the time when he stayed back in the shop to talk to the salesgirl...ALL seem to Fall into PLACE..and the "astrologer" has his case made out for him....DIG his claws so deep into the victim that there is now NO ESCAPE....

Astrology has nothing to do with hypnosis. This is your own shortfall. A proof of confusion of your mind.

After hundreds of Years of practise and fine tuning these masters of forgery and human manipulation have refined their art to a mastery of human emotions and insecurities...people are in a hurry to TELL them their own FUTURE and Past... In the WEST this "service" is performed by the PSYCHOLOGIST/PSYCHOANALYST...who earns BIG BUCKS listening to victims pour their hearts out.

Astrology is a Science. There is nothing to forge here.

IF I wasnt an AMRITDHAREE and a Firm beleiver in GURBANi and GURMATT.. I could make a killing in astrology....its that easy ( and I KNOW FOR A FACT that I KNOW NOTHING about any PAST or FUTURE of anybody even myself !!!)

After noting your comments, I have serious doubts of your above statements however I do wholeheartedly agree with your last comments in brackets. To practice Astrology one needs Wisdom, Logic and a clear Mind. So just as well you are not practicing this art.

Forgive me

“Aisa kamm mooley na keejey jit ant pashotayea. “ – Guru Amar Dass ji.

Comments by Balbir ji

In my view, all jyotishis (astrologers) are blind like any other professionals until they come to know Simran.All sciences and their studies lead one to worldly engagements. The push of Simran changes its direction toward God.

A true Astrologer does not practice this art without Naam Simran. Predicting someones future is not a game. It has consequences. The Jyotishi is subjected to the effects of mis-interpretation. There are very many astrologers who conduct this trade in pretence. They will suffer their own fate. The same can equally be said about people that pretend to selectively follow Sikhism and pretend to “live gurbani” and claim to have a third eye vision when it is blatantly clear that they have a very poor understanding of the subject.

Article put forward by Luthra Sumeet ji

JOTISH by T.Singh

Do not tell lies, O Pandit; speak the Truth. When egoism is
eradicated through the Shabad, then one finds His Home,
Reality. Calculating and counting, the astrologer draws the
horoscope. He studies it and announces it, but he does not
understand Reality. Understand, that the Gur-Shabad is above
all. Do not speak of anything else; it is all just ashes (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 904)…………………………

There are very many authors who have published their frustrations on the net. If they had put this much effort on understanding this topic, they would have become much wiser.

Comments by Vijaydeep ji

In old time both astronmoers and astrologers were called Jyotishi and only now we use term Khagol Shastri for Astronomer.

There is a big difference between Astronomers and Astrologers. Please read around on the subject.

As in Japu Ji saihb itself it is writtan.

Huaqqami Ander Sabh Ko Bahar Huqam Na Koi,Nanak Huqqami Jai Bujhe,Hau mai Kahe Nan Koi.

Astrology does not contradict that statement. It takes aid from that fact in predicting what is written in your “Hukam”

All universe works under will of God and if someone understand it then no ego is left.

Alas your understanding is very poor of both Gurbani and Astrology.

So Horoscope,which tells by pseudo scince that by the position of stars or plannet our life is gooing to be effected and by particular riltaism or stone we can undo damge has no place in Gurmat.As If Akal want something to happen then no object star or Plannet can prevent it.Rather all celestial objects move by will of Akal and no one knows it but Akal so why should we try to shamm with astrology or Horoscope.

Brother Balbeer Singh Ji Das hope you have got the point.

Let alone Balbir getting the point, you are yourself totally off the mark.

As an ex Hindu Das here wants to inform you that as per astrologers Mahoorat or asupisius Days and Horoscopes are toatly differnat things.

As far as Horoscope is concern it is a sort of arrangement various palnatory and steller position during birht of a human ie time of birht.And based on then there are various extrpolations done to predict the life of that person.

If something wrong is predicted then to undo it vaour rituals are told.Like wearing stone etc.

Veras Mahurat is based upon the fact as per astrologers the day which is good to do the job in question based upon steller position.Well due to this stupid thing in past hindus were defeated time and again by foregn invaders.

Firstly you Hindu background has nothing to do with astrology and secondly you know “ILL DA NAAM KUKKAR” about astrology. Do not comment on what you do not understand.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=3219

Forgive Das if wrong is writtan.

Yes, what you have written in wrong. Why verbally puke in the first place? And then ask for forgiveness later.

Comments by sskohli

Your comments are very much to the point on correctness. Only if these people would read around the topic in question before giving their opinions.

There is no clash between Astrology and Sikhism. It is true to say that Astrology will not lead you to Mukti but It has the ability to predict to considerable accuracy what the future holds for you. A true astrologer will guide you like a Wise Man and not mislead you.

So please do not mix issues here.

Ekmusafir_ajnabi

drkhalsa · #20 (**permalink**) 19-Aug-2007, 02:49 AM

Quote:

All universe works under will of God and if someone understand it then no ego is left.

Alas your understanding is very poor of both Gurbani and Astrology.

Dear Friend

It will of great help if Such Great Personalities like yourself who can know the most correct things also guide some low creatures like me and give the right understanding
atleast in the above case.

Just telling somebody that he is wrong, hardly make sense to him and also others who read such post so please take some time to elaborate further

Every effort is fully appreciated

Jatinder Singh

ekmusafir_ajnabi · #21 (**permalink**) 20-Aug-2007, 15:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkhalsa

Dear Friend

It will of great help if Such Great Personalities like yourself who can know the most correct things also guide some low creatures like me and give the right understanding atleast in the above case.

Just telling somebody that he is wrong, hardly make sense to him and also others who read such post so please take some time to elaborate further

Every effort is fully appreciated

Jatinder Singh

These issues will come to light when there is a greater desire for knowledge. With respect, the time is not right yet for me to tell you and for you to digest it.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

drkhalsa · #22 (**permalink**) 20-Aug-2007, 16:35 PM

Quote:

These issues will come to light when there is a greater desire for knowledge. With respect, the time is not right yet for me to tell you and for you to digest it.

No problem
one is already taking care of me do if you dont want to say it then obviously I dont need it

Thanks for taking care of my Digestion

Jatinder Singh

ekmusafir_ajnabi · #23 (**permalink**) 20-Aug-2007, 19:14 PM

Do not be disappointed Dear Brother,

Here is some background to Astrology.

The Vedic sages had scientific methods to propagate Vedic knowledge. They had the vedangas.

Siksha meant that Vedas had to be recited compulsorily every day in a systematic manner. The mantras had to be chanted in a methodical, scientific way. For this, there was jata-patha had two forms : ayvakrita jata-patha or 'reversed recitation'. To repeat ishavasyam, as it is was termed avyakrita and to reverse it as vasyam isha meant it was vyakrita. This system was so complex and so scientific those modern scientific minds would be bewildered at their own haphazard ways of training! Then there was ghana-patha, and so on. This was the grand style of teaching so that not a single letter was lost.
Vyakarana or grammar helped teachers teach the rules of conjunction and interjunction, sandhis and samasas, the lingas and vibhaktis etc., so that no truth or mantra was distorted.
Chandas was meant to give tunes to the Vedic mantras. Suppose students were to repeat mantras in a dry mode. They would become bored. So, the wonderful tunes of mantras, especially of the Sama chants.
Nirukta was meant to serve the purpose of a thesaurus. Sage yaska used the dictionary. Nighantu, to develop this system.
Jyotisha. The sages were not parrots, just keeping the mantras in memory had they been parrots, the mantras would have been powerless and useless and Hinduism would not have had its vitality today. So, each sage performed sacrifices described in the Vedas, practiced sadhana as described everyone could not perform all the sacrifices and all the sadhanas mentioned, they were divided into schools and institutions, and each independent schools and institutions, and each independent school became a custodian of a particular sacrifice rite and portion of the Veda. In order to follow Vedic injunction at the right time and at the right season, the science of astrology or Jyotisha was developed. Calculating the Zodiacal positions, the nature, position, effects etc, of the stars and planets was a wonderful science that was developed independently to help humanity. I generally ask this question to those physicists who decry Jyotisha as nonsense: How many centuries ago did modern science discover that the sun is in the Centre and there are nine planets revolving around it? How many aeons ago did Indian scientists of old discover this truth? Just because Galileo Galilee said that sun was the centre, priests tortured him and Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake in 1600 AD! The problem with the scientists is what's available to the five senses and to the instruments that bring knowledge to these senses, alone is true. The rest is simply false. And every day a scientific theory is tumbling out. If science were everything, why did they fool people all these years with their big bang theory? Now they say that was a mistake!
Kalpa is the science of performing sacrifices, composed in the form of aphorisms. There are four Kalpas: Shrauta Sutras, Grihya Sutras, Dharma Sutras and Sulba Sutras. These Sutras guided the sages in their lifestyles and activities.

We can clearly see from this simple introduction itself how great the Indian science of the Vedas was! It was not a cock-and-bull story written by fools. It was a wonderful system developed over millenniums! Just one challenge to modern scientific people: Please show us one single case of grammar in any other language of the world which has a Sutra system like that of Panini. Please show us a single dictionary in the worlds in verse form like that of our Amarakosha. It's simply impossible to imagine how our ancient scientist thought of such systems. India is great; Indian history is great; Indian thoughts are great. Let's bow down in all humility to Indian thought and learn from it. Let's study the Vedas. The Vedas are not terrific Sanskrit things. Anyone can read them using transaction. And there are wonderful translations. If foreigners can study them and do such a lot of work on them, why not we? Our ancient knowledge has come to us after much difficulty and tremendous sacrifice. Millions have died in the hands of invaders to save Hinduism. Let's not forget their sacrifice.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=3219
You may ask: If Indian Vedas are so great, if it is such a perfect science, why did India suffer so much? Why is there no development at all here? The reason is this: Exactly one thousands years ago, gold was sold on the streets of India like we sell groundnuts! The world envied Indian progress. Indian scientist taught the whole world! Nalanda, Taxila and other universities were the oxford and Cambridge of the world! We lost everything because of Muslim invaders and the subsequent occupations. Now, once again there is interest in the Vedas and we shall rise once again there is interest in the Vedas and we shall rise once again, Swamiji has declared time and again: 'India will be raised, not with the power of the flesh, but with the power of the spirit; not with the flag of destruction, but with the flag of peace and love�.'. ' I see in my mind's eye the future perfect India rising out of this chaos and strife�'.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=3219
From Guru to disciple, from disciple to disciple-the river of Vedic knowledge flowed in this way. And now we have every gadget under the Sun. But today we don't follow the metres and Chandas that the Rishis have followed. We want to set film tunes to Mantras and sing them in such a way that the deergha becomes a hrasva, a word becomes three words, a sentence becomes meaningless and the pronunciation is simply preposterous. This we call modernity! Modernity indeed! To preserve knowledge through all the vicissitudes without changing even a single letter for thousands of years is not a joke. Reporters can't report what they see the previous day correctly, not to speak of thousands of years!
Today, everyone is only too eager to criticize Brahmins. Who were the sages? They were Brahmins, mostly, though people from all communities were sages. Brahmins may have done some wrong, but to blame them for every wrong under the Sun is silly. We must be grateful to them for all that they have done to humanity. Simply condemning some race for no reason.
Let's memorize this sentence from Vivekananda: 'There is no new religious idea preached anywhere which is not found in the Vedas.'

ekmusafir_ajnabi

drkhalsa · #24 (**permalink**) 21-Aug-2007, 18:57 PM

Dear Friend s

As such the above post by Ek Musafir was good read although it was copy /pastr material fromm the larger topic written by Swami Vivekanand tp instill respect toward Vedic Tradition in Hindu masses

Jatinder Singh

ekmusafir_ajnabi · #25 (**permalink**) 21-Aug-2007, 21:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balbir Singh

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

This is interesting to know. These are the excerpts of the bigger article found on Internet. The Title of this article is 'How We Got the Vedas'. Swami Sunirmalanada has written it.

I only want to know whether ekmusafir_ajnabi is Swami Sunirmalanada or he has only stolen this part to show his knowledge. Earlier he also wrote posts with the signature of the prominent Guru.
Habits may rest but never removed.

Balbir Singh

You are right Balbir, the source of that extract is indeed from the article by "Swami Sunirmalanada"-'How We Got the Vedas'. Information was presented to drkhalsa as background information that I considered suitable for the time being and which is factually correct. It served its pupose.

There is a lot of information available on the net but it takes intelligence and wisdom to make the right selection. Considerable knowledge that is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is also present in some form in the Vedas. Does that mean our Gurus have stolen it from there. Information is available all around us. Bani says "Jo brehmande soi Pinde". Has this ever come to your mind how Guru Gobind Singh was able to recite Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji word for word.

If there is a limit to understanding then it is with your thinking. You have an immense desire to be an Internet Faqir and Baba. Please fulfill your desire because that will only bring you back to another life. Refine your thinking, read the interpretations of Bani by Prof Sahib Singh and Faridkot Wala Teeka if you can understand it. It is all there. At least do not mess-up others lives.

Quote:

As such the above post by Ek Musafir was good read although it was copy /pastr material fromm the larger topic written by Swami Vivekanand tp instill respect toward Vedic Tradition in Hindu masses

Khalsa ji, People get a seasonal itch about Spirituality and Knowledge. Questions are being asked for the sake of asking a question. Where the information comes from, you have no concern. It could have been another made up B---Sh-- by Balbir and you would have excepted it. There is not a single individual here in this forum who is seriousily intrested in Spirituality. It is a past time for all. You just want to have your say from what you have so far understood. It is like a frog who makes big leapes in his small well and feels he has entered an ocean. Little does he know but have only heard of the ocean.

Incidently to show the mirror of your keen intrest, the article is written by Swami Sunirmalanada and not Swami Vivekananda. Your quote "it was a good read". This was the limit to you eagerness for knowledge. I think the evidence is self explanatory.

I have no enimity with anyone here. I am a musafir passing through who from time to time interferes to correct some individuals going off the track themselves and misleading others. Sorry to hurt ones Ego.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

drkhalsa · #26 (**permalink**) 21-Aug-2007, 22:10 PM

Quote:

Incidently to show the mirror of your keen intrest, the article is written by Swami Sunirmalanada and not Swami Vivekananda. Your quote "it was a good read". This was the limit to you eagerness for knowledge. I think the evidence is self explanatory.

I have no enimity with anyone here. I am a musafir passing through who from time to time interferes to correct some individuals going off the track themselves and misleading others. Sorry to hurt ones Ego.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

Dear Musafir Ji

I dont have habit to crtisize what others have to say . So are my responses are to most of the posts .
As far as your understanding about No Seekers on the forum .I respect it but dont agree neccesarily
I have no shame in accepting that Iam novice in Spirtuality but I am fully aware of the fact that Iam seeker and need nobodies assurance to be aware of it

About this article my friend this kind of information about astrology I have already read before and also many writings bySwami Vivekananda SO It wasnt soo exciting to me although definately it was good read ( I never imagined that little appreciation would bruise your ego - as I thought you were above such things . but now I doubt it )

Thanks for showing me mirror and bruising my Ego I think I need this and this is what I am on this forum for .I take it as blessing from my Lord and it help clean myself .

I have already ststed in Other post that I highly acknowledge and cherish your post and also posts of Balbir singh and few others like Aaad002 and vijaydeep Singh .May be I am not too expresiive about saying this But I know they are very important for my spirtual Journey

One thing that I could not understand is That as I go about reading post by yourself and Balbir Singh I get impression that both of you are very spirually blessed .elevated souls But the thing that is surprising is Why Cant you see this Spirtuality in each other

Its very obvious when you call somebodies writing ******** you are really unhappy with the man

I am all ready for your further lessons in spirtuality and also Brusing that you might have in store for me .Keep them Coming

Uth Fareeda Sutia Duniya Veekhan ja
Je koee Mil jae Bakshiya tan tun ve Bakshiyan jaee ( I think This is what I look for When I come to foru m !)

Really Thankful to you

Jatinder Singh

Narayanjot Kaur · #27 (**permalink**) 22-Aug-2007, 02:00 AM

Drkhalsa ji and respected forum members, Starting with the comment of the good Drkhalsa ji,

One thing that I could not understand is That as I go about reading post by yourself and Balbir Singh I get impression that both of you are very spirually blessed .elevated souls But the thing that is surprising is Why Cant you see this Spirtuality in each other
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=3219

Drkhalsa may be one of the few people so far who understands that a forum is not the place where we become sadhu. Should that happen by chance then it was God's will only and none of our effort. Spirituality? Mostly it is nurtured in the quiet of dyann and prayer and meditation. A forum is supposed to be a noisy place where information and ideas are exchanged, sometimes with great seriousness and sometimes in the spirit of entertainment.

Drkhalsa is showing some of his gursikh tendencies when he encourages us to see God in All. Even in people who go off track, or get things wrong, or have another point of view.

And when people allow the words of others to trigger some further thought, questions, study, conversation, and continued dialog they are making best use of the Internet. This is not a big ashram-- we are not looking for discipline -- everyone can handle a challenge, and maybe have a good laugh along the way.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=3219