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Two Questions about God

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 28-Mar-2010, 21:58 PM
gsingh2011's Avatar gsingh2011 gsingh2011 is offline
 
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Two Questions about God

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I have two questions that I was asked a while back and I have been wondering the answers ever since.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/29712-two-questions-about-god.html

First of all, (this was asked by an atheist) if God exists, why do so many "bad" things happen in the world? It got me thinking, why does vaheguru not make everyone good and take out all of the evil in the world?

Second of all, why are we punished for our sins if all of our actions were pre-ordained by God?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29712

Thanks in advance!
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-Apr-2010, 23:12 PM
gsingh2011's Avatar gsingh2011 gsingh2011 is offline
 
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Re: Two Questions about God

Does anyone have any ideas?
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Old 07-Apr-2010, 01:07 AM
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Re: Two Questions about God

These questions are based on a Human confused mind who does not know our purpose of coming into physical bodies.

Whether or not we know the purpose, we are still subject to physical laws which is part of His Hukam. We need not have to be explained how our digestive system works but we still feel hungry and require food. I don't see much difference between an atheist who is asking these questions and a true seeker of God.

The curiosity of knowing more that there is a greater purpose to life than what appears to be seen on the surface, leads one to eventually unveil the secrets of the spiritual life beyond the physical limitations.

The goal in mind is to journey from the present state of confusion to a present state of realization. The journey is within one's own being. Guru Ji says,

Page 13, Line 18
ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜੇ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੩॥
निज घरि महलु पावहु सुख सहजे बहुरि न होइगो फेरा ॥३॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29712
Nij gẖar mahal pāvhu sukẖ sėhje bahur na ho▫igo ferā. ||3||
Within the home of your own inner being, you shall obtain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence with intuitive ease. You shall not be consigned again to the wheel of reincarnation. ||3||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
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Old 07-Apr-2010, 01:16 AM
Astroboy's Avatar Astroboy Astroboy is offline
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Re: Two Questions about God

Quote:
Second of all, why are we punished for our sins if all of our actions were pre-ordained by God?
Ang 84 will give us an explanation on how His Hukam works. Hukam is a set of laws which we are all subject to.

ਪਉੜੀ
पउड़ी ॥
Pa▫oṛī.
Pauree:

ਹਰਿ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਇਕੁ ਤੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਭੇਤੁ
हरि अंदरि बाहरि इकु तूं तूं जाणहि भेतु ॥
Har anḏar bāhar ik ṯūʼn ṯūʼn jāṇėh bẖeṯ.
O Lord, You are inside and outside as well. You are the Knower of secrets.

ਜੋ ਕੀਚੈ ਸੋ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਚੇਤੁ
जो कीचै सो हरि जाणदा मेरे मन हरि चेतु ॥
Jo kīcẖai so har jāṇḏā mere man har cẖeṯ.
Whatever anyone does, the Lord knows. O my mind, think of the Lord.

ਸੋ ਡਰੈ ਜਿ ਪਾਪ ਕਮਾਵਦਾ ਧਰਮੀ ਵਿਗਸੇਤੁ
सो डरै जि पाप कमावदा धरमी विगसेतु ॥
So darai jė pāp kamāvḏā ḏẖarmī vigseṯ.
The one who commits sins lives in fear, while the one who lives righteously rejoices.

ਤੂੰ ਸਚਾ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਆਉ ਸਚੁ ਤਾ ਡਰੀਐ ਕੇਤੁ
तूं सचा आपि निआउ सचु ता डरीऐ केतु ॥
Ŧūʼn sacẖā āp ni▫ā▫o sacẖ ṯā darī▫ai keṯ.
O Lord, You Yourself are True, and True is Your Justice. Why should anyone be afraid?

ਜਿਨਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਪਛਾਣਿਆ ਸੇ ਸਚਿ ਰਲੇਤੁ ॥੫॥
जिना नानक सचु पछाणिआ से सचि रलेतु ॥५॥
Jinā Nānak sacẖ pacẖẖāṇi▫ā se sacẖ raleṯ. ||5||
O Nanak, those who recognize the True Lord are blended with the True One. ||5||
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Old 07-Apr-2010, 01:20 AM
Astroboy's Avatar Astroboy Astroboy is offline
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Re: Two Questions about God

In Ang 93, Bhagat Ravidas says it beautifully,

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ
सिरीरागु ॥
Sirīrāg.
Sree Raag:

ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29712
तोही मोही मोही तोही अंतरु कैसा ॥
Ŧohī mohī mohī ṯohī anṯar kaisā.
You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us?

ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥
कनक कटिक जल तरंग जैसा ॥१॥
Kanak katik jal ṯarang jaisā. ||1||
We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1||

ਜਉ ਪੈ ਹਮ ਪਾਪ ਕਰੰਤਾ ਅਹੇ ਅਨੰਤਾ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29712
जउ पै हम न पाप करंता अहे अनंता ॥
Ja▫o pai ham na pāp karanṯā ahe ananṯā.
If I did not commit any sins, O Infinite Lord,

ਪਤਿਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਹੁੰਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
पतित पावन नामु कैसे हुंता ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Paṯiṯ pāvan nām kaise hunṯā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
how would You have acquired the name, 'Redeemer of sinners'? ||1||Pause||

ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਜੁ ਨਾਇਕ ਆਛਹੁ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ
तुम्ह जु नाइक आछहु अंतरजामी ॥
Ŧumĥ jo nā▫ik ācẖẖahu anṯarjāmī.
You are my Master, the Inner-knower, Searcher of hearts.

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇ ਜਨੁ ਜਾਨੀਜੈ ਜਨ ਤੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥੨॥
प्रभ ते जनु जानीजै जन ते सुआमी ॥२॥
Parabẖ ṯe jan jānījai jan ṯe su▫āmī. ||2||
The servant is known by his God, and the Lord and Master is known by His servant. ||2||

ਸਰੀਰੁ ਆਰਾਧੈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ਦੇਹੂ
सरीरु आराधै मो कउ बीचारु देहू ॥
Sarīr ārāḏẖai mo ka▫o bīcẖār ḏehū.
Grant me the wisdom to worship and adore You with my body.

ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਸਮ ਦਲ ਸਮਝਾਵੈ ਕੋਊ ॥੩॥
रविदास सम दल समझावै कोऊ ॥३॥
Raviḏās sam ḏal samjẖāvai ko▫ū. ||3||
O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is very rare. ||3||
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-Apr-2010, 02:15 AM
Ambers's Avatar Ambers Ambers is offline
 
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Re: Two Questions about God

Good posts and quotations, Namjap Ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29712
I enjoyed reading them.

Could it be summarised that one should look not to the problems and ills of the world, nor the luxuries and wealth of a few, but rather to the Lord for a real answer? It sounds so.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29712

Can we then find an answer in remembering His name and looking to the Guru within rather than the material world? If done earnestly then I feel it does. God is not only the creator but the answer.

But how does it work? Why is it so that when the mind becomes focused on Akal Purakh we are relieved of the burdens of the manmukhs. What actually "happens"?
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Old 07-Apr-2010, 23:34 PM
Astroboy's Avatar Astroboy Astroboy is offline
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Re: Two Questions about God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambers View Post
Good posts and quotations, Namjap Ji.
I enjoyed reading them.

Could it be summarised that one should look not to the problems and ills of the world, nor the luxuries and wealth of a few, but rather to the Lord for a real answer? It sounds so.

Can we then find an answer in remembering His name and looking to the Guru within rather than the material world? If done earnestly then I feel it does. God is not only the creator but the answer.
Ambers Ji,

Here's a SHABAD (in the 18th line of Ang 26 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) with the answer that we seek:-

ਹਰਿ ਹਾਰੁ ਕੰਠਿ ਜਿਨੀ ਪਹਿਰਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ
हरि हारु कंठि जिनी पहिरिआ गुर चरणी चितु लाइ ॥
Har hār kanṯẖ jinī pahiri▫ā gur cẖarṇī cẖiṯ lā▫e.
Those who wear the Necklace of the Lord around their necks, and focus their consciousness on the Guru's Feet -

ਤਿਨਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਓਨਾ ਤਿਲੁ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੪॥
तिना पिछै रिधि सिधि फिरै ओना तिलु न तमाइ ॥४॥
Ŧinā picẖẖai riḏẖ siḏẖ firai onā ṯil na ṯamā▫e. ||4||
wealth and supernatural spiritual powers follow them, but they do not care for such things at all. ||4||
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Old 08-Apr-2010, 00:23 AM
Astroboy's Avatar Astroboy Astroboy is offline
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Re: Two Questions about God

Quoted by Ambers
Quote:
But how does it work? Why is it so that when the mind becomes focused on Akal Purakh we are relieved of the burdens of the manmukhs. What actually "happens"?
Excerpts from : Temple of God
Those people who are under the influence of the mind and are doing outer practices say, "How can the man-body be the temple of God? This is a sack of filth--who can say it is the house of God?" They are never convinced about it. The body is full of filth, urine, blood, etc. How can there be anything inside? If you want to see the sun you must look outside." What is a manmukh? "He who does not understand the Holy Shabad can be termed a manmukh. The fear of the Guru is not in his heart."
Such people say, "How can this body be a temple of God?" Eat, drink and be merry is their motto. Dear people, this human form is a true temple, wherein God resides. Withdraw yourselves from outer things and realize Him. You can only do this while you have a human life. "Now you have got this man-body, it is the time to meet God. All the outward actions will not help you. In the Jap Ji Sahib, which is read daily by the Sikhs, it is written, "There is a priceless jewel within you; you will realize it if you obey the Guru's teachings."

If you knew there was some treasure hidden somewhere, wouldn't you like to dig it out?
Even if the Shabads in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji point towards the Kingdom within, a Sikh doesn't take the trouble to dig out the true treasure because he doesn't even know how to begin. Nobody taught him. He's occupied with his outer rituals of reciting the 5 Banis while his mind flies around in all directions. Ever asked a Sikh if he bought a newspaper and read it without understanding it?

Why don't they dig out the Truth? Even if one meets someone who can help to bring out this Truth, and some understanding is given, even then one does not care to do the digging. How unfortunate is he! What can we call such an unfortunate person? If he were not conscious of the thing, it would be a different matter, but if someone has shown a little of that treasure inside, and even then one ignores it, then what is to be done? The usual excuse given is, "I have no time," is it not? Do you want someone else to dig out the treasure for you?

Soul is a part of God, just as it is a part of the Shabad. When the soul becomes one with God, it becomes full of bliss. "If ye long for eternal happiness, surrender thyself to God." Stay in your religions. This wealth of Naam is already in you. God is residing in this physical form, which can rightly be called the Temple of God. Keep this temple carefully, with purity and cleanliness. That form is beautiful in which God has manifested Himself. If you cover a heap of garbage with silk, will any fragrance of perfume come out of it. Clean up the mind through self-introspection and daily meditation. The more frequently one enjoys the Divine contact with the holy Naam, the more beautiful will one become inside. As the inner beauty develops, the fragrant radiance from within will shine forth, making a temple truly fit for God to dwell in.

In Ang 109 Guru Amardas Ji writes,
ਇਸੁ ਕਾਇਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵਸਤੁ ਅਸੰਖਾ
इसु काइआ अंदरि वसतु असंखा ॥
Is kā▫i▫ā anḏar vasaṯ asankẖā.
Within this body are countless objects.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਵੇਖਾ
गुरमुखि साचु मिलै ता वेखा ॥
Gurmukẖ sācẖ milai ṯā vekẖā.
The Gurmukh attains Truth, and comes to see them.

ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਦਸਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਜਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥
नउ दरवाजे दसवै मुकता अनहद सबदु वजावणिआ ॥३॥
Na▫o ḏarvāje ḏasvai mukṯā anhaḏ sabaḏ vajāvaṇi▫ā. ||3||
Beyond the nine gates, the Tenth Gate is found, and liberation is obtained. The Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates. ||3||
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Old 08-Apr-2010, 00:56 AM
Ambers's Avatar Ambers Ambers is offline
 
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Re: Two Questions about God

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Namjap Ji
Thank you for the beautiful replies. The quotations you picked out vibrate a profound answer to my questions.

It appears that the Gurus teach us that it is remembrance of the naam which liberates us from the maya and the problems of the world. And that once the Lord bestows His grace it is remembrance once again that one "wears" and continues. For example:

So simran kar nahī rākẖ uṯār.
Practice that meditative remembrance, and never let it go.
Devotee Kabir
- view Shabad

Here it would be incorrect to ask what more "to do" when we know that all is Hukam, His will:

Jo parabẖ bẖāvai so thī▫ai avar na karṇā jā▫e.
Whatever pleases God's Will comes to pass. Nothing else can be done.

view Shabad

So all doing, including the remembrance, the mediation and the even the kirtan is a part of His will. Because...

Sabẖ kicẖẖ vasgaṯ sāhibai āpe karaṇ karev.
Everything is in the Hands of our Lord and Master; He Himself is the Doer of deeds.

view Shabad
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29712
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29712

None the less love and devotion continues to flow and in remembrance comes bliss, does it not? We find ourselves far from the ills of the world whilst never apart from It. I cannot explain the devotion that follows, there can not still be a "need" so why does one do it? Is there any clarity in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which you have happened upon or can share?
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