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Is Ritual-Bath in Sarovars An Essential Part of Sikhism?

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-Apr-2010, 23:49 PM
Taranjeet singh's Avatar Taranjeet singh Taranjeet singh is offline
 
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Re: Is ritual-bath in sarovars an essential part of Sikhism?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejwant Singh View Post
Taranjeet Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said!

No body could have expressed these important things better.

Thanks for doing it.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
Respected Sir,

I am really humbled by your generous comments.
Kindly keep me in the fold of your Love and Blessings.

Deep Regards!


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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-Apr-2010, 20:52 PM
harbansj24's Avatar harbansj24 harbansj24 is offline
 
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Re: Is ritual-bath in sarovars an essential part of Sikhism?

Gyaniji,

While there may be many "sants" and "babas"who are goluk chors and persons with deviant behaviour, the situation may not be that bleak and there may be light at the end of dark tunnel.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/29684-ritual-bath-sarovars-essential-part-sikhism.html
If you look around you will find several Gursikhs (who are also called Sants and Babas by some) whose main activity is to "Aap japey awre Naam japave" or "koi jan har sio deve jor". There are also many professionals who who after doing day long "kirit" devote some time in propagation of Naam without any ulterior motives.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29684
It is also gratifying to see many youthful kathavachaks these days at Gurudwara Bangla Sahib who talk rationally and totally discourage belief in miracles or superstition.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-Apr-2010, 19:11 PM
arshi's Avatar arshi arshi is offline
 
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Re: Is ritual-bath in sarovars an essential part of Sikhism?

Harbans Singh ji wrote “If you look around you will find several Gursikhs (who are also called Sants and Babas by some) whose main activity is to "Aap japey awre Naam japave" or "koi jan har sio deve jor". There are also many professionals who after doing day long "kirit" devote some time in propagation of Naam without any ulterior motives”


Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29684
Gurfateh and well said Harbans Singh ji, precisely my sentiments. The quote ‘what is in a name’ may be appropriate here.


If I may, I would like to share an anecdote from my personal life. In 1951, in Nairobi, Kenya, when I was in Standard 4, my first experience of education in Kenya, having done the first three standards in Punjab we had a young teacher, with a great sense of humour, who loved music and dramatics. One day he asked us to sing a song – not defining the subject matter - and that the one who sings most would receive his special appreciation. He himself stated off with a popular film song sung by Mukesh. Being fresh from village life in India, I knew a string of folk and devotional songs and entertained the class for the rest of the period. The teacher was so impressed that he conferred upon me the pseudonym of ‘Ragi’ and ever since very few knew my real name. Even today, my close friends refer to me as ‘Ragi’, even though I adopted the new nom de plume ‘Arshi’ way back in the late fifties when I, briefly, sang on the Voice of Kenya.


The point is that some titles are easily (and sometimes ‘accidentally’) conferred on people but we ought to look beyond the title into the work of the individual. I remember a Sikh High Court judge in the UK who in the early seventies said that we Sikhs are very casual about conferring titles. We refer to a person as a Granthi if he (she) knows the Gurmukhi ‘painty’ and is able to read from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Anyone one who can also do a little interpretation is referred to as a Gyani and as soon as people start touching his feet he gets to be known as a sant. As a result there are many self-proclaimed sants and babas and we must be very wary of them and they can always be identified by the ritualism they promote and practice.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29684


However, there are a precious few who received the title without wishing for it and who live their lives based on the three cornerstones of naam japo, kirat karo and wand shako (mediate on the Supreme Truth, earn by your own honest toil and share your rewards with others). Meditation means constantly reflecting on the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and adopting these to give us a sense of direction and encourage us to make a positive contribution to the society we live in. We must also share the rewards of our efforts and wisdom with those around us. Such precious individuals who live by example are extremely sparse and often difficult to recognise since to acknowledge them we must have the ‘inner eye’ or Guru Grace. Many such great souls prefer to remain ‘gupt’ (anonymous) whilst some for our benefit are revealed by His Grace.


Goodwill and Peace to all

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’


Last edited by arshi; 04-Apr-2010 at 20:32 PM. Reason: lines dropped on transmission
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-Apr-2010, 21:25 PM
Taranjeet singh's Avatar Taranjeet singh Taranjeet singh is offline
 
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Re: Is ritual-bath in sarovars an essential part of Sikhism?

 
Re: Is ritual-bath in sarovars an essential part of Sikhism?
Respected Jasbeer ji and and Members,

To respond to the question the following material is posted for your kind perusal and the advice of members. I do admit your observation that no emancipations can take place by ritual path only. I would humbly agree with Jasbir ji for his next observation that we may have some illusion about something magical happening with these baths or undertaking of these baths and that may not be the case and that we are falling to the trap of Hindu’s practices.

It is to state very humbly that the Sarovars adds to aesthetics and improves ambiance of the place esp. of Harmandir sahib. The bath at sarovars, if taken purely for love to a place, shall not be strictly speaking be a ritual though. It is subjective choice and may be love of Guru only else that baths just act that may result in puffing up our ego of the individuals doing so.

Gurus have told specifically:

· You may perform religious rituals, and still never obtain the Naam, the Name of the Lord.[33-8 M-3]

The Sikhism rejects rituals and superstitions and this feature of Sikhism is in fact the identification of Sikhism as a separate religion and this can be called as one of the prominent feature of Sikhism that differentiates it from the Hinduism. This fact makes it a distinct religion and is oft quoted in the literature and is well accepted by the theologians of both sides i.e. Hindus and Sikhs.

Sikhism rejects the worshipping of idols; it also rejects any kinds of fasts that are observed by our Hindu friends. There is no place of self-proclaimed Babas and Deras. Perfroming any sort of deeds would amount to:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29684


· Performing all sorts of rituals, people are smeared with twice as much filth. [39-7]

However with the flow of time some practices that got crystallized in particular Gurudwaras are observed by them Gurudwaras as a routine and that in my humble opinion is well within the fringes of ‘rituals’. An allusion may be made to the Gurudwara at Nanded Sahib where Aarti is performed almost the way adopted by our Hindu brothers. However, strictly speaking, there is no place for such a kind of practice as well in Sikhism. It is more out of the continuity of the ongoing conventions and sentimental attachment to those conventions that the Gurudwara finds itself trapped into without any reason and justification beyond. But the we have clear instructions:

· they may be ascetics, great, self-disciplined Yogis; they may visit sacred shrines of pilgrimage and perform the six ceremonial rituals, over and over again, performing worship services and ritual bathings. Even so, if they have not embraced love for the Supreme Lord God, then they shall surely go to hell.[ang 70: M:5]

Like wise superstition, originated from ignorance, has no place in Sikhism. There is a prohibition of certain practices as per the Rehat of Sikhs. Sikhs do not believe in the caste system either and that some of us do follow is on account of out folly and is the direct outcome of the inflated egos of the individuals. As a matter of panthic approach it is also discarded. It is for us to get out of it. The sooner it is the better it would be for the entire community.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29684

Another area that is infested with the rituals is the way in which the marriages are performed by the sikhs.The marriage system is also based upon some type of caste system. An ‘Arora’ may like to marry in ‘Arora’ and likewise a ‘khatri’ would prefer to marry a ‘Khatri’ A ‘Ramgharia’ would also prefer to marry among ‘Ramgaria’ It is not possible to enlist the basis of classification that Sikhs have found for themselves.’ Jat’ is also considered as a separate community and special names have been coined for representing these types of classes. Sikhs are putting themselves into traps and no one else is responsible. This can be checked from the matrimonial columns of any Indian newspapers and even the Internet sites like shadi.com etc. That we are in this situation is most regrettable.

We have to find a solution for this. An inter linked social problem that has also not left Sikhs unbruised is the dowry system that has come into vogue with full force. The problem is more acute in affluent sikh families where there is a strong presumption of a weighty dowry from the Girl side. This has lead to very unpleasant results that are before us.

The following part of the Rehat deals with various aspects of rituals and reproduced here to make the post self contained and general reference when the need so arise.

Chapter 10
Article XVI

Clause (d) Not believing in cast or descent, untouched ability, magic, spells, incantation, omens, auspicious times, days and occasions, influence of start, horoscopic dispositions, shradh (ritual serving of food to priests for the salvation of ancestors on appointed days as per the lunar calendar), ancestor worship, khiah (ritual serving of food to priests - Brahmins - on the lunar anniversaries of the death of an ancestor), pind (offering of funeral barley cakes to the deceased’s relatives), patal (ritual donation of food in the belief that that would satisfy the hunger of the departed soul), diva (the ceremony of keeping an oil lamp lit for 360 days after the death, in the belief that that lights the path of the deceased), ritual funeral acts, hom (lighting of ritual fire and pouring intermittently clarified butter, food grains etc. into it for propitiating gods for the fulfillment of a purpose) jag (religious ceremony involving presentation of oblations), tarpan (libation), sikha-sut (keeping a tuft of hair on the head and wearing thread), bhadan (shaving of head on the death of a parent), fasting on new or full moon or other days, wearing of frontal marks on the forehead, wearing thread, wearing of a necklace of the pieces of tulsi stalk [A plant with medicinal properties], veneration of any graves, of monuments erected to honour the memory of a deceased person or of cremation sites, idolatry and such like superstitious observances. [Most, though not all rituals and ritual or religious observances listed in this clause are Hindu rituals and observances. The reason is that the old rituals and practices, continued to be observed by large numbers of Sikhs even after their conversion from their old to the new faith and a large bulk of the Sikh novices were Hindu converts. Another reason for this phenomenon was the strangle-hold of the Brahmin priest on Hindus secular and religious life which the Brahmin priest managed to maintain even on those leaving the Hindu religious fold, by his astute mental dexterity and rare capacity for compromise. That the Sikh novitiates include a sizable number of Muslims is shown by inclusion in this clause of the taboos as to the sanctity of graves, shirni, etc.]

Not owning up or regarding as hallowed any place other than the Guru’s place - such, for instance, as sacred spots or places of pilgrimage of other faiths.
Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri (Hindu scriptural prayer unto the sun), the Gita, the Quran, the Bible, etc.. However, the study of the books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.

In the end as a concluding remark :we should all try to inculcate the values as edicted by Guru sahibs and tread the path as advised and not get involved in to the rituals that are against the sikh tenets.

With Regards.
E&OE.

Last edited by spnadmin; 20-Dec-2010 at 00:04 AM. Reason: Corrections ,spellings
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 19-Dec-2010, 21:49 PM
findingmyway's Avatar findingmyway findingmyway is offline
 
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Re: Is ritual-bath in sarovars an essential part of Sikhism?

Wonderful thread!!

Page 4 in Japji

ਭਰੀਐ ਹਥੁ ਪੈਰੁ ਤਨੁ ਦੇਹ ॥
bhareeai hathh pair than dhaeh ||
भरीऐ हथु पैरु तनु देह ॥
When the hands and the feet and the body are dirty,



ਪਾਣੀ ਧੋਤੈ ਉਤਰਸੁ ਖੇਹ ॥
paanee dhhothai outharas khaeh ||
पाणी धोतै उतरसु खेह ॥
water can wash away the dirt.



ਮੂਤ ਪਲੀਤੀ ਕਪੜੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29684
mooth paleethee kaparr hoe ||
मूत पलीती कपड़ु होइ ॥
When the clothes are soiled and stained,



ਦੇ ਸਾਬੂਣੁ ਲਈਐ ਓਹੁ ਧੋਇ ॥
dhae saaboon leeai ouhu dhhoe ||
दे साबूणु लईऐ ओहु धोइ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29684
soap can wash them clean.



ਭਰੀਐ ਮਤਿ ਪਾਪਾ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ॥
bhareeai math paapaa kai sang ||
भरीऐ मति पापा कै संगि ॥
But when the intellect is stained and polluted by sin,



ਓਹੁ ਧੋਪੈ ਨਾਵੈ ਕੈ ਰੰਗਿ ॥
ouhu dhhopai naavai kai rang ||
ओहु धोपै नावै कै रंगि ॥
it can only be cleansed by the Love of Bani.



ਪੁੰਨੀ ਪਾਪੀ ਆਖਣੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
punnee paapee aakhan naahi ||
पुंनी पापी आखणु नाहि ॥
Virtue and vice do not come by mere words;



ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਣਾ ਲਿਖਿ ਲੈ ਜਾਹੁ ॥
kar kar karanaa likh lai jaahu ||
करि करि करणा लिखि लै जाहु ॥
actions repeated, over and over again, are engraved on the soul.



ਆਪੇ ਬੀਜਿ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਖਾਹੁ ॥
aapae beej aapae hee khaahu ||
आपे बीजि आपे ही खाहु ॥
You shall harvest what you plant.


ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਆਵਹੁ ਜਾਹੁ ॥੨੦॥
naanak hukamee aavahu jaahu ||20||
नानक हुकमी आवहु जाहु ॥२०॥
O Nanak, by the Hukam of God's Command, we come and go in rebirth. ||20||
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-Feb-2011, 07:16 AM
Ambarsaria's Avatar Ambarsaria Ambarsaria is offline
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Re: Is ritual-bath in sarovars an essential part of Sikhism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh View Post
Jasbir Ji..
MY answer would be..EDUCATION.
Parents study the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...vichaar...and ADAPT their daily lives accordingly..
EDUCATE YOURSELF...then EDUCATE your children...impart the solid foundation of Gurbani...vichaar...following its teachings....and the next genration at least is safe form these Babas and chors....SPN is one such SCHOOL of EDUCATION !!:happykaur:
Sorry to revive an old thread.

Some thoughts with GuruGranth Darpan of Professor Sahib Singh ji, and a feeble attempt by me to translate the essence per the understanding provided by Professor Sahib.
(Note: In the above video the right most person I believe is Bhai Sukhdev Singh from Amritsar who has his own Hajuri Jatha now and is a wonderful Raagi.)

pdArQ:- rwmdws srovir—rwm dy dwsW dy srovr ivc, swD sMgiq ivc ijQy nwm-jl dw pRvwh c`ldw hY [ nwqy—nHwqy [ siB—swry [ kmwqy—kmwey hoey, kIqy hoey [ kir—kr ky [ guir—gurU ny [ dwnw—b^SS [1[ siB—swry [ kusl Kym—suK Awnμd [ pRiB—pRBU ny [ siB Qok—swrIAW cIzW, Awqmk jIvn dy swry gux [ aubwry—bcw ley [ bIcwry—bIcwir, ivcwr ky, soc-mMfl ivc itkw ky [rhwau[


swD sMig—swD sMgiq ivc [ mlu—ivkwrW dI mYl [ swQI—shweI [ purK—srb-ivAwpk
[2[



ArQ:- hy BweI! ijs mnu`K ny gurU dy Sbd ƒ AwpxI soc-mMfl ivc itkw ky Awqmk jIvn dy swry gux (ivkwrW dy Fhy cVHn qoN) TIk-Twk bcw ley, pRBU ny (aus dy ihrdy ivc) swry Awqmk suK Awnμd pYdw kr id`qy [rhwau[


Translation:
Hai Sikh, a person who studies gurbani and has protected their good values, God creates bliss in their soul.




hy BweI! jyhVy mnu`K rwm dy dwsW dy srovr ivc (swD sMgiq ivc nwm-AMimRq nwl) ieSnwn krdy hn, auhnW dy (ipCly) kIqy hoey swry pwp lih jWdy hn [ (hir-nwm-jl nwl) ieSnwn kr ky auh pivqR jIvn vwly ho jWdy hn [ pr ieh b^SS pUry gurU ny hI kIqI huMdI hY [1[

Translation:
Hai Sikh, the people who wash themselves in the ether of God’s servants in study of gurbani, their previous malice disappears. With this washing in the water of Gurbani, you become pure. But this blessing is also provided by God.
hy BweI! swD sMgiq ivc (itikAW) ivkwrW dI mYl dUr ho jWdI hY, (swD sMgiq dI brkiq nwl) prmwqmw mddgwr bx jWdw hY [ hy nwnk! (ijs mnu`K ny rwmdws-srovr ivc Aw ky) prmwqmw dw nwm ismirAw, aus ny aus pRBU ƒ l`B ilAw jo sB dw mu`F hY Aqy jo srbivAwpk hY [2[1[65[
not—ieQoN ‘Gru 3’ dy Sbd do bMdW vwly SurU hoey hn [ du-pdy—do bMdW vwly [

Translation:
Hai Sikh, in unison with the congregation you remove the dirt of vices and God becomes of help. Hai Nanak, the person who studied God in Gurbani, he discovers the God , the source and creator of all.
I been to the Sarovar at Sri Harmindar Sahib ji since from childhood. Just now starting to realize some of the essence.


Sat Sri Akal.


PS: There are multiple functional reasons for a sarovar but this should not be traded with spirituality of Gurbani versus literal parchar. Some functional aspects include,

  • Moderating the climate around the central domed Sri Harmanid Sahib ji
  • For people with little or no access to water for a bath in those days a common place
  • Medically such places provided body immunity enhancement (not suitable for today's AC driven generation)
  • etc.
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Old 04-Feb-2011, 10:05 AM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Is Ritual-Bath in Sarovars An Essential Part of Sikhism?

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Ambarsariah Ji,
in my opinion you have done a good job of getting the essence of prof Sahib Singh Jis explanation of this shabad..while the "authorities" at SGPC/Akal takhat that control the shrine at Amrtisar have FAILED to do as they stick with the traditional RITUALISED BATH to remove SINS..via signboards placed there and their kathas done at Manji sahib.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29684
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29684

1. If we take the Hindus..ALL thr RITUALS they perform are SANCTIONED by their Holy Books..Veds and Purans and Mannus simrtees and thus following all those rituals makes them BETTER STAUNCH HINDUS.
BUT for SIKHS..ALL these Rituals are not only actively DISCOURAGED..some are CONDEMNED outright in GURBANI..time and again by various Guru sahibs and bhagats as well. SO all sikhs who perform rituals are GOING AGAINST the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Gurbani and thus are WORSE SIKHS for that....yet many many sikhs continue to do that without even understanding what Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says...bhed chaal condoned nay actively ENCOURAGED by vested interests for Goluk purposes....
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