Sehajdhari Sikh Federation! Comments, Please

curious seeker · #37 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2010, 13:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwardeep Singh

If you want RSS and other hindu organisations to take over Sikhism and destroy the remaining sikhs then go ahead try this Idea.Ashutosh call himself living Guru so their is no question of him being a sikh.

Btw in all other religions their is a type of ceremony by which a person embrace that religion.I think for sehajdhari's we have to invent that ceremony
then they can become part of sikhism

Dear Kanwardeep Singh JI

I do believe that All who wish to be called Sikhs should show some sort of commitment and then should be formally admitted. I am not so sure though that admittance into the Khalsa is that way at first. As to inventing a ceremony for Sehajdharis that is not true. Before Khalsa Sikhs had an Initiation ceremony, correct? I think something along those lines ought to be tried then you would not habe to worry about all those Hindus pretending to be Sehajdhari Sikks

Not that the re-instated ceremony would change the fact that the Khalsa as the Guru's own should still run the show, No, I look at it as a way to giving a sense of belonging to Sikhs that may otherwise feel left out specially young Sikhs and more specially so in the West. It would also help many seekers take the first step to becoming a committed Sikh.

Divine Light
Curious

curious seeker · #38 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2010, 13:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballym

Great idea. After all a human need to have a defined boundary and a discipline to follow. No denying that.
But this discipline should not make people shun that path. Like a father being too strict and kids not following him at all. It does not lead to positive result.
Good practical solution.

Dear Ballym Ji

Precisely! I think something along the lines of a formal and public renunciation of manmukhi ways and then a formal recognition as a Sikh would do wonders!

Divine Light
Curious

curious seeker · #39 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2010, 14:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur

roab ji

My understanding of the conversation on this point is that many who follow all the tenets of Sikhism but do not take amrit would benefit from a form of initiation consistent with their level or stage. I did not get a sense that this would be for people who are trying avoid a boundary. But it would be a way, an important step, to acknowledge to oneself that one is not ready for Khanda da pahul, yet one wishes to identify as a Sikh. And it is important also for the panth to recognize those who do accept only Sri Guru Granth Sahib as guru, do Nit Nem, take very seriously seva to the Guru and to the Panth, and abide by all other beliefs of Sikhism. There are many things that many Sikhs take to heart. And it makes no sense for their identity to be in question given one scenario or another, oftentimes having to do with politics. The line drawn to be a Sikh can be so rigid that it drives people away into dera worship, babawale practices, or no participation at all. This is already happening. So I think the suggestion is merely a way to be inclusive. Of course if I am not getting it, then Kanwardeep ji or ballym ji will clarify their points.

Dear Narayanjot Ji

Well you know, in my book? YOU GOT IT!!!!!. At least this is something that all my 62 years of experience tells me would do wonders for Sikhi and Sikhs. However, realistically what are the chances of something like this actually coming about?

Divine Light
Curious

Narayanjot Kaur · #40 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2010, 14:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curious seeker

Dear Narayanjot Ji

Well you know, in my book? YOU GOT IT!!!!!. At least this is something that all my 62 years of experience tells me would do wonders for Sikhi and Sikhs. However, realistically what are the chances of something like this actually coming about?

Divine Light
Curious

Curious Seeker ji

Whatever it is that I GOT does not belong to me on this subject. I have learned from thinking about other's perspectives on this problem. As you ask "realistically what are the chances of something like this actually coming about?" I am almost certain it will happen sooner than we may think. Maybe not in my lifetime or yours. But celebration of early stages (added) of a Sikh identity is going to be increasingly more relevant as more kids leave their traditions and as more converts enter the fold. I am speaking as a convert BTW. I will not allow myself to get into arguments about whether one must be Khalsa to be Sikh. There are -- and everyone knows this is so -- many answers to that question, all depending on context and the biases of those who respond to the question. In the end, as individuals we have to take a personal account of where we are with what we know we must do. The question I like to ask myself is whether I would turn back now? Would there be any circumstance that might turn me away from Sikhism? I know there is none. Everything else pales against Sri Guru Granth Sahib who is my guru. Akaal will decide the rest. Will decide eveyrthing.

kds1980 · #41 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2010, 14:34 PM

Quote:

My questions are more along the lines of the meaning of the terms and whether being Khalsa is a requirement for bing a 'true' Sikh. I am not here to criticize, far from it. I consider Sikhi as having a lot more to contribute to humanity than even most Sikhs may think. But I also worry that some elements are using the spirit of the Khalsa to fanaticize and divide the Sikh Way , and I am also asking myself if I am seeing things right. I certainly would not want to make a wrong judgment or make a wrong conclusion. And that is why I pester you guys with questions

Khalsa being a requirement of true sikh is difficult to answer.If in Sikhism there is no requirement of become a Khalsa then almost 100% sikhs will opt for not being a Khalsa
and Sikh identity will be diluted forever.After all why should people prefer to choose a difficult path rather than simple way

curious seeker · #42 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2010, 14:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur

curious seeker ji

I am truly unable to understand your question? At what level are you asking?

Sehajdhari and Sahajdhari are the same word. The "e" and "a" in that noun position are pronounded the same way -- in English like the "u" in "thud." The schwa sound in English. Transliterations can be very variable and therefore throw a person off. The word "sehaj" in Gurmukhi looks like this ਸਹਜਿ, which is .... s - h - j (soft j) - eh

You notice that the "e" or "a" following the initial "s" is not even written. It is voiced but not written. Whenever that is the fate of a vowel in Punjabi, then the vowel sounds like "uh." The transliteration has to include a vowel, in the case of sehaj (an "e" or an "a") because without it the word would be mispronounced as if starting with an "sh."
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Now I think you are asking more than that. One translation for "sehaj" is intuitive ease -- or the state of equipoise experienced by one who achieves realization. But it also means "natural state" "inborn nature" "effortless state" or the "highest spiritual state." When Guru Nanak used the word he was referring to those who were moving on a path toward the highest spiritual state. On the way to sehaj, seeking the jyote or inner light of Waheguru. And yes, the modern meaning is different, but also it is not so different.

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In the modern sense the sehajdhari are making their way toward realization of their inner nature through their devotion as Sikhs. They have not taken a final step, which to be baptized and adopt the Sikh roop. Though this may sound as if somehow a shift has occurred and greater emphasis or value is placed on one's physical appearance, that is not the case.

In 1699 Guru Gobind Singh formed the Khalsa on Vaisakhi, soon to be celebrated on April 14. Before him inner and outer spirituality had always been two pillars of Sikhi. On Vaisakhi Guru Gobind Singh formalized this fusion of inner and outer spirituality when he created the Khalsa. Guru Gobind Singh declared Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the final and eternal Guru. But he also said to his khalsa

The Khalsa is my own special form
Within the Khalsa I’ll ever abide,
The Khalsa is the life of my life;
The Khalsa is the breath of my breath.
The Khalsa is my worshipful lord.
The Khalsa is my saintly knight.

Sikh bana, including kesh, of a baptized Sikh symbolizes that "special form." It is the representation of outer spirituality. Sure many keshdhari and amritdhari do not live up to the verses above. And many who are sehajdhari are extremely spiritual. But in the ideal sense, to be that "saintly knight," one gives up that part of one's individuality or ego that stands in the way of accepting the bana of a baptized Sikh. This is my understanding. And the best answer that I can give you. Others will have to improve on my deficiencies.

Dear Narayanjot Ji

That is wonderful reply! It does place the Amritsari vs Sehajdhari thing in a very clear light Its not that God would require of men the outer forms of a special commitment, its that men, themselves, needed to show to themselves they are, indeed, committed, did I get you at least half right?

I see all the benefits of the Khalsa , I worry that sometimes the emphasis on direct response to perceived injustice makes the Khalsa somewhat prone to be manipulated into over reacting. This despite the clear injunction not to use weapons or violence but as the very last resort.

And as to Sehajdhari issue: The ability to go through some sort of process of validation, acceptance and belonging for those who either has not grasped the importance of the Amrit and of the Khalsa, or do not feel ready for that kind of absolute commitment, can , IMO, not be exaggerated. It could solve the budding problem with many youths , It could be a very great help in the West both giving a sense of belonging to Diaspora Sikhs and facilitating acceptance by many Westerners of the Sikh way.

In fact, for all we know many of those Hindus that supposedly flood the Gurdwaras in India, might even actually become Sikhs and give up idolatry and even caste, It is possible that they are going to the Gurdwara because they follow the Bani but feel left out and even scared of a commitment to the militancy of the Khalsa.

But I ask you what I asked elsewhere in another post in this thread: How possible is that some sort of Initiation for Non-Khalsa Sikhs could come about? Is it realistically doable? I ask because, in most religions , change of the structure is almost impossible.

Divine Light
Curous

harmanpreet singh · #43 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2010, 15:29 PM

sat ari akaal ,

i donot feel there is any compulsion on Sikh for becoming Khalsa , infact its totally ones own choice / wish .
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/29484-sehajdhari-sikh-federation-comments-please.html

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29484
i bow to Tenth Nanak sahib sri Guru Gobind singh sahib ji for blessing his beloved Khalsa with such distinct saint soldier identity .

Narayanjot Kaur · #44 (**permalink**) 11-Apr-2010, 00:15 AM

curious seeker ji

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29484
I did answer it in post 39.

Tejwant Singh · #45 (**permalink**) 11-Apr-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curious seeker

Dear Kanwardeep Singh JI

I do believe that All who wish to be called Sikhs should show some sort of commitment and then should be formally admitted. I am not so sure though that admittance into the Khalsa is that way at first. As to inventing a ceremony for Sehajdharis that is not true. Before Khalsa Sikhs had an Initiation ceremony, correct? I think something along those lines ought to be tried then you would not habe to worry about all those Hindus pretending to be Sehajdhari Sikks

Not that the re-instated ceremony would change the fact that the Khalsa as the Guru's own should still run the show, No, I look at it as a way to giving a sense of belonging to Sikhs that may otherwise feel left out specially young Sikhs and more specially so in the West. It would also help many seekers take the first step to becoming a committed Sikh.

Divine Light
Curious

Curious Seeker ji,

Guru Fateh.

Allow me to offer my 2 cent worth on this subject.

Sikhi is a unique way of looking at life, from inwards to outwards rather than the other way around, hence it is the internal manifestation, the desire to learn, to improve, to breed goodness through the three basic tenets working as our inner spring boards.

1. Naam Japnah ( Always be aware that there is ONE SOURCE of all irrespective of our hue,cred or faith, hence all are One and The One is in all).

2.Kirat Karni ( doing any task with love,devotion, dedication and in an honest manner irrespective of our age, career or profession).

3. Vand kei Chaknah ( sharing- not giving- whatever we can with others, a laughter, a tear or two, a smile, a shoulder to lean on, a helping hand etc. etc.).

The four doors of Harmander Sahib indicate that anyone from any hue,creed or faith is welcome to participate in this nectar of goodness and become a better Hindu, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Jaini, Parsi etc. etc.

The concept of Langar- Community kitchen (unlike the Christian Soup kitchens which only cater to the poor) also teaches the equality among all humanity, irrespective of a religion and social status. The Prince and the Pauper break the bread sitting together, side by side.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, teaches that. That is why the name Sikh simply means a student, a learner, a seeker. Nothing more.

A few years ago there was an International Religious Convention held in Madrid, Spain. Sikhs set up a big tent with Langar there where they served 8000 meals. Peoples from all different religions had the opportunity to partake in this wonderful event. A Rabbi whose name slips my mind wrote about it and said that this event where he ate all those days when he was at the convention made him a better Jew.

So, the idea of Sikhi is for each of us to become better as human beings. This is one more reason that proselyting is forbidden in Sikhi because then it would become an external imposition of a dogmatic kind whereas Sikhi is pragmatic way of life.

Thus, this internal manifestation which sprouts love, if followed with honesty and truthfulness can make one become a Sikh externally as well which may take one to take khandei de pahul eventually.

Finally to answer your initial query about any kind of initiation in Sikhi would make it dogmatic and hence defeat the purpose what Sikhi and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are all about and what they stand for.

Tejwant Singh