Amar Daas brought the Lord under His control

japjisahib04 · #10 (**permalink**) 10-Mar-2010, 14:56 PM

In similar way, Bhatts in Sweviah while honoring the Guru maintain that in order to uproot the evils and confusion of societies, this time instead of Paigamber or Avtar“Awip nrwiexu klw Dwir jg mih prvirXau ] inrMkwir Awkwru joiq jg mMfil kirXau ] -God Himself wielded His Power in Guru Nanak and entered the world. The Formless God thus took Form, and with His Light He illuminated the realms of the world.” - Guru Granth ang.1395.6.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/29477-amar-daas-brought-lord-under-his.html

It would be useful to clarify doubts created by a certain scholar by literally interpretating one lines, who advocates confusion that Bhatts bridges the concept of incarnate God of the Hindus and the Sikh concept of God being Ajooni. They maintain, He is already in His creation - He does not need to come squat in person. How do you fit a ocean in a hole? My humble submission is that all that Bhatts are doing is lavishing praise on our Gurus in traditional (shoaba) poetry for bringing complete truth to the world, no more than that. Bhatts were traditional scribes. This was their style and it is basically in every poetry of theirs - including those written for the kings and princes. I guess their heart was in right place. It should be viewed in the light of the following verse in “Gian Dhian Kichh Karam N Jaanaa Saar N Jaanaa Teri ll Sabh te Wadha SATGUR, NANAK Jin Kal Rakhi Meri ll -I know nothing about wisdom, meditation and good deeds; I know nothing about Your excellence O my beloved God. Satguru, the Sabd, is the greatest of all; He saved my honor by enlightening the world in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga.” - Guru Granth ang.750.3. Here it seems 5th Guru Ji is praising 1st Guru Ji and as such propaganda is being made that gurus are praising each other. But this is a wrong interpretation. It is all in praise of Sabd Guru- the Akal Purakh who saved his honor and accomplished his mission by enlightening the world with complete truth, the baani, whenever the God is forgotten.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29477

In order to make it crystal clear Guru Arjan Ji is saying that, “The spiritual knowledge of His baani is emanated from Sabd thus is presenting complete truth.” - Guru Granth ang.628.2.

Taranjeet singh · #11 (**permalink**) 10-Mar-2010, 15:07 PM

Japjisahibo4 ji,

Your posts reflects not only in depth knowledge but also sprinkles serenity and peace. Too grateful for posting it, Sir.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29477

Thanks once again.

Narayanjot Kaur · #12 (**permalink**) 10-Mar-2010, 23:01 PM

jasbirkaleka ji

Your comments are extremely interesting and not something that has been posted over and over again. If you have any more information along the lines you have shared so far, please add to our threads about the bhats.

arshi · #13 (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2010, 02:55 AM

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਾਤੇਰੀ॥ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਲ ਰਾਖੀ ਮੇਰੀ॥੪॥੧੦॥੫੭॥{ਪੰਨਾ 749-750}
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29477

giaan dhiaan kichh karam na jaanaa saar na jaanaa teyree.
sabh tey vadaa satgur naanak jin kal raakhee mayree.

The translation by Sant Singh is too literal at times, as appears to be the case here. Usually the Punjabi translation by Prof Sahib Singh in Sri Guru Granth Darpan sheds more light but in this instance it is quiet, as the translation of this pankti is missed out. Overall, both Sant Singh ji and Prof Sahib Sngh Ji have done a wonderful job and a great service to Sikh Panth.

Sahni ji is quite right in that the translation as per Sant Singh ji is incorrect – a comma needs to be placed after “Satgur”. Sahni ji’s version makes more sense IMO.

sabh tey vadaa satgur (The Lord is the greatest of all); naanak jin kal raakhee mayree (O Nanak, the One who protects and sustains me)..

This is confirmed by the leading pankti of this shabad:

ਜਿਸਕੇ ਸਿਰ ਊਪਰਿ ਤੂੰ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੋ ਦੁਖੁ ਕੈਸਾ ਪਾਵੈ॥ ਬੋਲਿ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਦਿ ਮਾਤਾ ਮਰਣਾ ਚੀਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ॥੧॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29477

jis kay sir oopar too^N suaamee so dukh kaisaa paavai.
bol na jaanai maaiaa mad maataa marnaa cheet na aavai. ||1||

O Lord the devotee blessed by you can never feel any pain or suffering. Such a devotee will never utter a word under the influence of ego or worldly illusion (maya). The fear of death never enters his mind or heart – i.e. never troubles him (note: another translation of the second half of this pankti is possible but if we take the pankti as a whole, the interpretation as above, IMO, makes more sense, as the blessed one will not fear death or speak in ego.

Humbly
Rajinder Singh 'Arshi'

Narayanjot Kaur · #14 (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2010, 03:13 AM

Please forgive me. However do we need a new and different thread to continue this discussion? We seem to be moving on a related issue but away from the original question in the title of the thread. We are looking a different shabad.

arshi · #15 (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2010, 03:14 AM

The system somehow messes up my post – leaves out lines. I am posting this again without the Gurmakhi font.

giaan dhiaan kichh karam na jaanaa saar na jaanaa teyree.
sabh tey vadaa satgur naanak jin kal raakhee mayree.

The translation by Sant Singh is too literal at times, as appears to be the case here Usually the Punjabi translation by Prof Sahib Singh in Sri Guru Granth Darpan sheds more light but in this instance it is quiet, as the translation of this pankti is missed out. Overall, both Sant Singh ji and Prof Sahib Singh Ji have done a wonderful job.

Sahni ji is quite right in that the translation as per Sant Singh ji is incorrect – a comma needs to be placed after “Satgur”. Sahni ji’s version makes more sense IMO.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29477
sabh tey vadaa satgur (The Lord is the greatest of all); naanak jin kal raakhi mayree (O Nanak, the One who protects and sustains me).

This is confirmed by the leading pankti of this shabad:

jis kay sir oopar too^N suaamee so dukh kaisaa paavai.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29477
bol na jaanai maaiaa mad maataa marnaa cheet na aavai. ||1||

O Lord the devotee blessed by you can never feel any pain or suffering. Such a devotee will never utter a word under the influence of ego or worldly illusion (maya). The fear of death never enters his mind or heart – i.e. never troubles him (note: another translation of the second half of this pankti is possible but if we take the pankti as a whole, the interpretation as above, IMO, makes more sense, as the blessed one will not fear death or speak in egoism.

Humbly
Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’
Arshi’

Narayanjot Kaur · #16 (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2010, 03:20 AM

I do think we need a different thread as the issues now being discussed are different.

japjisahib04 · #17 (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2010, 14:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur

jasbirkaleka ji

Your comments are extremely interesting and not something that has been posted over and over again. If you have any more information along the lines you have shared so far, please add to our threads about the bhats.

Narayanjot kaur ji,

Are you referring to me or Jasbirkaleka ji,

Anyhow, I would like to mark here that in Guru Granth Sahib thousands of names like Ram, Rahim, Krishan, Govind, Beethal, Hari, Niranjan and Dayalu etc., as attributes are used to address God but word 'waheguru' coined by Bhats which it seems is addressed to fourth Guru Nanak. Since state of mind (vismad) of ‘wah’ emerges while listening, singing, understanding and dedicating to the baani of Guru Granth Sahib, therefore word ‘Waheguru’ is devoted to Guru Granth Sahib. In addition critical analysis of Swayiae indicates that Guru Ramdas has been further addressed by bhat as; ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ , ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁਗੁਬਿੰਦ ਜੀਉ , isrI gurU isrI gurU isrI gurU siq jIau ]ਵਾਹੁਵਾਹੁ ਕਾ ਬਡਾ ਤਮਾਸਾand approval of word waheguru and inclusion of these swayees by Guru Arjan Dev Ji is an evidence of honor to his Sikhs equal to Guru, bhagats.

There are 10 Swayas in the praise of Guru Nanak, 10 in praise of Guru Angad, 22 in praise of Guru Amardas, 60 in praise of Guru Ramdas and 21 in praise of Guru Arjan.

Mohinder Singh Sahni