A Marriage Question

Both of my parents are really nice people and understand most of the things. My mother and father are open minded, but my father is strict with one thing, religion. If he gets angry at something he shows his action with irritation, and then denies it that he ever said something like that. He has made some racist comments and he believes that only sikhi people should be allowed into our home.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/29321-a-marriage-question.html

What i'm trying to get at is this: My father is very religious and he says that if I marry someone not from our religion, he will leave us.
Is there in any way I can show to him that he is wrong? Something from Guru Granth Sahib? I know that Sikhism doesn't allow outside marriage, but if I can point out to him that it Sikhi doesn't agree or point out that we only have to be bound to our religion. Maybe I can convince him.

I don't believe in religion at all but I've seen all of the people in the world as humans. I'm not any better than them and they aren't any better than me. I don't see anyone by their religion or force my thoughts upon anyone. I still don't want my dad to be unhappy if I ever get married and it's a woman outside from Sikhi religion. I really care about him, I want to help him because I respect him a lot, but I don't want to be forced into selecting someone in sikhism.

If someone can help me I would be grateful. Also, if you can try to give me the page of Guru Granth Sahib and what it says.

I can understand it's not exactly right to come to a Sikh forum for to ask help about getting married outside of religion. But please, try to see it in my perspective. I don't want him to leave or me being forced.

 
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ExEc ji

I have highlighted in bold and color the places where I see some mis-alignment.

You and your father have views regarding religion that are very different.
He says he will leave the family if you marry outside your religion. There are other situations where the child is disowned if this happens.

I am not going to give you advice, other than to say it sounds like you have the opportunity to communicate with your parents -- you say they are intelligent and kind.

Last but not least. You are not going to find advice in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj either. Unlike many other scriptures, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not a rule-book and was never intended to be a rule-book. The core idea of marriage in Sikhism is that bride and bridegroom become one soul. Both are encouraged to be the Soul Bride or spouse of the Beloved, who is Waheguru.

ਮ: ੩ ॥ mehlaa 3. Third Mehl:
ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਬਹਨਿ ਇਕਠੇ ਹੋਇ ॥
Dhan pir ayhi na aakhee-an bahan ikthay ho-ay.
They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together.

ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥
ayk jot du-ay moortee Dhan pir kahee-ai so-ay. ((3))
They alone are called husband and wife, who have one light in two bodies.

Ang 788

Your father's values are derived directly from the Sikh Rehat Maryada which is a code of conduct for Sikhs in their personal and corporate lives. Chapter 11, Article XVIII k. Persons professing faiths other than the Sikh faith cannot be joined in wedlock by the Anand Karaj ceremony.
Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

He apparently takes this very seriously. Many would say he deserves respect for doing so. And if you read the information at the link above it becomes very clear that the SRM's perspective and the understanding of one light in two bodies as the Soul Bride are difficult to separate.

Try to find a solution that serves both your need and his, a common ground.

Yes he deserves respect for what he believes in. I'm not trying to take anything away from him. The thing is, I just don't believe in any religion. I don't want to have arguments or fights over religion with my future wife. Me and my dad have been fighting about Sikhism for a long time.
He wants me to attend Sikh camp and he dislikes all of my friends that aren't Sikhs.
At the moment I'm in a relationship, me and my girlfriend have been together for nearly 7 years. We haven't had any big problems with our relationship.

So, I should respect my fathers views and leave my girlfriend. Get married to Indian girl that has Sikhism for religion so he can be happy?

ExEC ji

That is the question I do not want to answer because you have to search your heart and consider all the consequences that come from either choice you make. No one in an Internet forum can do that for you, or should give you advice. Who can walk in your shoes? On the Internet responses are projections of the person who replies. I would be very reflective about that.

Simple Answer: Do what makes you happy

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29321
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29321
If you love this girl (and she is not of your religion) marry her. Its all about your happiness anyways. As a Sikh in a Sikh Family I can say, without a doubt, that sometimes your parents/family are more concerned about their image then your happiness.

Keep in mind that, your happiness comes with a cost. (Like your father "leaving the family"). But I say, "call his bluff" and go for it, you'll probably be better off in the long run if you opt to make your decisions based on what makes you happy.

Thanks Narayanjot Kaur. You're right, I'll have to try things better on my own.

Haha! That's a real nice answer Caspian, I've considering calling my fathers bluff before. I think he would still like to us to stay as a family.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29321
What you wrote about being happy in the long run, how did that EVER skip my mind?
I've been so caught up with thinking about my father and what would my relatives would think, that I forgot to tell myself that it'll make me happy.

Thank you so much!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExEc Both of my parents are really nice people and understand most of the things. My mother and father are open minded, but my father is strict with one thing, religion. If he gets angry at something he shows his action with irritation, and then denies it that he ever said something like that. He has made some racist comments and he believes that only sikhi people should be allowed into our home.fficeffice" />

Point 1

Your father should not be blackmailing you like this.

Point 2

You too should respect your father’s wishes.

Point 3

Sikhs come in all races and colours. There are white Sikhs, Black Sikhs, Chinese Sikhs, Punjabi Sikhs etc etc, so be clear whether you mean outside Sikh or outside Punjabi.

Point 4

Guru Gobind Singh ji has stated “Maanas Ki Jaat Ekh Paachano”. Recognise the Human Race as One!

A true Sikh is never racist.

Point 5

Have you ever tried to explore the Sikh faith itself, rather than dismissing it and therefore seeing it from your fathers point of view?

Point 6

Minority Groups like Sikhs use endogamy as a way to ensure that they do not lose their own culture and traditions. Do you value these cultures and traditions? Have you explored them?

Point 1

Your father should not be blackmailing you like this.

It doesn't stop him. I actually told him that he was blackmailing me, he denies it. He says it's not blackmailing.

Point 2

You too should respect your father’s wishes.

I don't interfere whatever he believes in on what he does. I don't question but rather help if he needs me or if he doesn't, i'll be always there for him.

Point 3

Sikhs come in all races and colours. There are white Sikhs, Black Sikhs, Chinese Sikhs, Punjabi Sikhs etc etc, so be clear whether you mean outside Sikh or outside Punjabi.

Outside of both.

Point 4

Guru Gobind Singh ji has stated “Maanas Ki Jaat Ekh Paachano”. Recognise the Human Race as One!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29321

A true Sikh is never racist.

His beliefs are that everyone else are lesser and Sikhism is the best. I don't speculate on it or anything because I'm more than sure of it.

Point 5

Have you ever tried to explore the Sikh faith itself, rather than dismissing it and therefore seeing it from your fathers point of view?

I've questioned my father and people from Gurdwara when they tried to slightly force religion on me. They tell me to believe in whatever they want because they can't answer. My father calls me stupid if he says something and I question him on it. Mormons, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs and Hindu people have their to question me and forced me in one way or another.

I don't tell people what to believe in or question their beliefs.
If Sikhism considers everyone equal, it shouldn't matter whatever they believe in, as long as they are a good person. It's the beliefs and thoughts that differs every human being. If we can't marry someone that we love or think that we should only marry people from our own religion, that question defeats the whole "equality" argument.
It's not like I'm a bad person or that I don't care for anyone. I care for everyone in this world, I just believe that I should be a good person.

Sikh people that I've met from Gurdrawa always question me and don't look too friendly when I question them back. If they are able to tell what they think is the most right, I should be able to tell my side.
They attend and follow everything that is written in Guru Granth Sahib. One of the families I know, their is mother divorced. Yet they talk about not marrying outside of the religion just because of soul bonding. That's just one example out of many others. They think of other people are less intelligent than them. There have been some times where they made some really unfriendly remarks toward other religions.

Now I know not all of the people are like that, and you might say that I've had bad encounters because that's not how Sikhs should be. I've seen and been in bad situations all my life, since birth. Mostly because of religion and I denied that it was because of religion. Later on, I just had to accept it after the age of 23. It wasn't just because of Sikhism but other religions as well.

My father thinks if i marry someone outside of our religion, i'll leave them and won't care for them. The reality is that wherever I am, I'm not going to let go of them or stop caring for them. They are the most precious thing to me. At weekends my father watches the religious program on tv, I sit down and just listen because it makes him happy. He tends to tell me that I should sit with him and listen, I do that. It's not that I want to say that whatever they are saying on TV is completely wrong or anything. It's just to make him happy.
And yes, he does get annoyed if I don't sit and watch it with him.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29321
Point 6

Minority Groups like Sikhs use endogamy as a way to ensure that they do not lose their own culture and traditions. Do you value these cultures and traditions? Have you explored them?

Yes, I've explored them. The only things I've heard so far are -Our culture needs to be preserved- or -When Sikhs marry they truly belong to each other and help each other out in every situation.-

If I ask them -What culture?- they can't give me a straight answer. Or simply -So only we have a culture that is better than others? We are all still humans so what does it matter-

When Sikhs marry they belong to each other, well I've seen marriages that are broken, unhappy and quite weird Sikh families. Also Aren't we all equal?
So far, they haven't been able to answer me with a straight answer rather go through a lot of stuff that doesn't even matter in marriage.
I guess he wants the best for me, and he think the best way I can get happiness with marriage is if I marry someone in our own religion. I can see that point but he doesn't even want to meet my girlfriend or give her a chance. He tells me that no girl should be allowed in our house unless they are from our own religion.


Please, I hope this whole subject doesn't turn into why I don't believe in any religion. I'm here as a human, a human that needs help.

One thing for sure at SPN, no one will force any religion on you.

On Point 5 and 6, you haven't answered it.

Just because you see something from another's point of view it does not mean you necessarily believe in it.

I study Sufism, Islam, Hinduism, Christianity and other faiths. Does not mean I believe in their traditions, culture and way of doing things, but I understand EXACTLY why they do them. I this way I try not to judge them.

From what you are saying, you seem to have covered all bases, considered all possibilities, and basically pre-judged every scenario, based on what I can see .

May I ask what books you have read on Sikhism, because it will give me a clearer understanding of YOUR understanding.