Meat - Is It Against Sikhi?

On Vedas And Animal Sacrifice
The only reason this section is included herein is that many Sikhs and otherwise who advocate non-Sattvic or Abhakh diet cite example of Hindu Vedic rituals of animal sacrifice. This sort of citing only indicates the lack of understanding of scriptures on the part of those who cite such examples in this context. Although the purpose of this section is not to expound on Vedas, however, apparently as some people are misusing and misinterpreting their teachings, it does warrant some clarification as to the position of Vedic scriptures in this context.
As previously stated, all beings are in the three modes of material nature namely, goodness, passion, and ignorance. As the purpose of Gurbani is to redeem all men, not just a few selected Sikhs; similarly, the purpose of Vedic scriptures is also to reclaim all men, not only a few selected ones. Therefore, to redeem all conditioned souls, there are eighteen Puraanas. Out of these eighteen Puraanas, six of them are meant for those in the mode of goodness, six of them are meant for those in the mode of passion, and the remaining six of them are meant for persons still in the mode of ignorance. Looking at the two extreme spectrums, for example, the Padam Puraana is written for persons in the mode of goodness, and the Maarkandeya Puraana is written for persons in the mode of ignorance. The description of sacrifice in which a goat may be sacrificed in the presence of the goddess Kaalee is made in the Maarkandeya Puraana. But, as stated above, this Puraana is only meant for people deeply stuck in the mode of ignorance (spiritually blind)!
Thus, according to the Vedic scriptures, slaughtering or sacrificing animals is the act in the mode of utter ignorance! While performing the act of animal-sacrifice, there are some Mantras that need be chanted. If the Pujaaree (priest or Pandit) and the person performing the sacrifice know the true meaning of these Mantras, they will never ever slaughter or sacrifice any animal in their life. The problem is: both Pandit and worshipper do not have the spiritual wisdom needed to realize the true meaning of these Mantras; it is like blind leading blind. In this context, here is a very brief primer by one of the great Vedantists, Bhaktivedaantaa Swami Prabhupaad. One may need to read it a few times to realize the underlying meaning. Ponder it, for it tells about the true teachings of the scriptures.
"It is very difficult for one to give up his attachments all at once. If one is addicted to meat-eating and is suddenly told that he must not eat meat, he can not do so. If one is attached to drinking liquor and suddenly told that the liquor is no good, he can not accept this advice. Therefore in Paraanas we find certain instructions that say in essence, "All right, if you want to eat meat, just worship the goddess Kaali and sacrifice a goat for her. Only then you can eat meat. You cannot eat meat just by purchasing it from the butcher shop. No, there must be sacrifice or restriction." In order to sacrifice a goat to the goddess Kaali, one must make arrangements for a certain date and utilize certain paraphernalia. That type of Pujaa, or worship, is allowed on the night of the dark moon, which means once a month. There are also certain mantraas to be chanted when the goat is being sacrificed. The goat is told, "Your life is being sacrificed before the goddess Kaali; you will therefore be immediately promoted to human form"... The mantraa also says, "You have the right to kill this man who is sacrificing you." The word maamsa (in mantraas) indicates that in his next birth the goat will eat the flesh of the man who is presently sacrificing him. This in itself should bring the goat-eater to his senses. He should consider, "Why am I eating this flesh? Why am I doing this? I will have to repay with my own flesh in another life . "The whole idea is to discourage one from eating meat."
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/291-meat-is-it-against-sikhi.html
The Gurbani also confirms as follows: Kabeer khoob khaanaa kheecharee jaa mahi amrit lon. Heraa rotee kaarne galaa ktaavai kayun: Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice (Khicharhee) flavored with salt is excellent. Who would cut his throat (in his next life) to have meat of a killed animal with his bread? (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1374).
Bhai Gurdaas, the ascriber of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, also says in this context: Seeh pajooti Bakkari, maradi hoie harh harh hassi, Ak Dhatura khadian kuh kuh khal ukhal vinassi, Maas Khan gal wad ke, haal tinada kaun hovassi -- Meaning, the goat says, "I was eating Akk and Dhaturar plants (unwanted weed plants) for whole of my life, to which nobody else likes to eat. And even then I am being brutally killed and my skin being ripped, what will happen to those who cut my throat and eat my meat? (Vaar 25-7) .
Now, if one thinks with intuitively balanced mind, he will understand that the act of animal sacrifice mentioned in the Vedic scriptures is not meant for encouraging killing and flesh eating, rather, it is meant for restricting and discouraging one from doing so. In fact, according to the Hindu scriptures, the Lord is confirmed to advocate Bhakh diet. For example, the Lord says: "If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or water, I will accept it" (Gita 9-26). Here the Lord did not say: "Offer me meat and wine"!
·"When the food is pure, the whole nature becomes pure; when the nature becomes pure, the memory becomes firm; and when a man is in possession of a firm memory, all the ties are severed" (Veda, Chhandogya Upnishad, VII-xxvi.2).
Along with traditions of the Masters, the Lord in Bible also advocates Sattvic diet. Briefly, a few verses from the Bible are cited herein. "But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood there of, shall ye not eat" (Genesis 9:4). In Isaiah (1:5), the Bible states: "Saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of arms, and fat of fed beasts, or of lambs, or of he-goats. When ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: ye, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear, for your hands are full of blood." Particularly about killing cows, this is what the Bible has to say: "He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man" (Isaiah 66:3).
Muslim scripture Quraan also indicates that the ideal situation is pure Sattvic diet. In Sura 2-22, it states: "Who has made the earth your couch, and the havens your canopy; and sent down rain from the sky; and brought forth therewith fruits as your food for your sustenance; then do not set up rivals to God when ye know (the truth)." In Sura 2-25, the Quraan states: "And give glad tidings to those who believe and do good works, that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow; as often as they are regaled with food of the fruits thereof, thay say : This is what was given us aforetime; and it is given to them in resemblance; there for them are pure companions; there for ever they abide". In fact, to a spiritually wise, Quraan makes it very clear "It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches God: it is your piety or devotion that reaches Him (Sura XXII-37).
As we can see, there is no problems with the scriptures. All problems are with majority of us (99.9 percent category); who, in spiritual blindness, claim to be equal to Guru-God. By doing so, we have either forgotten or corrupted the sublime essence of the teachings of the world Masters. Also in the West, where there is tremendous emphasis on unnatural or Abhakh diet, the greed of multi-national corporations, special interest groups and their lobbyists have totally corrupted the essence of the teachings of their Masters.
The Higher Taste: Moving From Animal To Divine Consciousness
Perhaps now one can appreciate as to why we are so much discouraged by the scriptures and spiritual beings from eating unnatural or Abhakh diet: it adds to our Kaarmic debt (Lekhaa). If there is a cause, there is an effect. For every Karma or activity (cause), there is a re-action or result (effect). Every debt must be paid off by the doer sooner or later. This is the law that brings back the results of one's actions to him. There is no escape from it. That's why Kabeer Saahib says: Kabeer khoob khaanaa kheecharee jaa mahi amrit lon. Heraa rotee kaarne galaa ktaavai kayun: Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice (Khicharhee) flavored with salt is excellent. Who would cut his throat (in his next life) to have meat with his bread? (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1374).
·Kirat payiaa na metai koyi: Past actions cannot be erased (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 154).
The job of the spiritual masters and the scriptures is to discourage us from accumulating more Kaarmic debt, not other way around! The departure of sense-slavery makes room for inner purity. Once the seeker has developed his inner-purity, the mind grows richer in its receptivity, alertness, comprehension, and in its power of apprehension. Such a mind becomes fit for plunging into the study of scriptures, and thereby, appreciating the Higher taste of Lord's Name. Through the sincere practice of attaching our attention to the Higher taste, one can certainly detach from the lower tastes.
If one lives by a constant thought-current as "I am the Self", he can not be lured or attracted by the sense objects. On the contrary, if one's continuous memory is "I am the flesh or matter", he is merely a slave of his senses. In such a conditioned stage, all he can think of is material objects such as foods, sleep, wine, lust, etc.
·Raini gavaayee soyi kai divis gavaayiyaa khaayi. Heere jaisaa janam hai kayudee badle jaayi - The nights are wasted sleeping, and the days are wasted eating. Human life is such a precious jewel, but it is being lost in exchange for a mere shell (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 156).
The purpose of life is not to meditate on relishes, drinks, etc. According to the Gurbani, the only purpose of this precious human life is to re-establish our lost relationship with our True Nature, Pure Consciousness. The journey to realize this goal begins at the mode of goodness (Sato Guna). Accordingly, the mode of goodness is not an end by itself; it is just the beginning. Hence, the aim should be to move upward to this more uplifting quality of the material nature. Uncondusive diet, actions, habits, tendencies and desires related to Raajsic and Taamsic qualities will not aid in achieving this goal. If one keeps gratifying senses and hope to realize God, he is in utter illusion.
The level of intelligence of an utterly foolish person is generally compared with that of a donkey. Poor donkey! For example, if some one acts in foolishness, he takes the risk of being called "Gadhaa" or "Khotaa" (donkey). Also, if a child behaves or acts foolishly, parents or teachers may call him "Gadhaa" or "Khotaa" to make the point. It is interesting to note that, if you place liquor in front of a donkey, he will smell it but walk away without tasting it! Similarly, if the same donkey is offered a meat dish, again, he will smell it but walk away without tasting it! However, the man, who thinks himself to be the most intelligent, will consume both!
According to the Gurbani, cruelty is one of the four rivers of fires. Falling into it, one is sure to get burnt. Materialistic living and cruelty go hand-in-hand. The reason a cruel person practices cruelty or violence to others is that he does not see One God in all Jeevas or beings. Under the spell of false ego or spiritual ignorance, he has no sense of Oneness.
·Hansu het lobh kop chaare nadiaa agg. Pavahi dajhai Nanakaa tareeai karmee lagg: Cruelty, material attachment, greed and anger are the four rivers of fire. Falling into them, one is burned, O Nanak! One is saved only by holding tight to good deeds (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 147).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=291
·Kubudhi dummnee kudayaa kasaain par nindaa ghat choohree muthee krodh chandaal: False-mindedness is the drummer-woman; cruelty is the butcheress; slander of others in one's heart is the cleaning-woman, and deceitful anger is the outcast-woman (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 91).
In fact, according to the Gurbani, there is no difference between killing of an animal and killing of a spiritual person and a daughter; as well as accepting food from an evil doer. Such person, according to the Gurbani, becomes subjected to leprosy of curses, criticism, and egotism. Further, the Gurbani identifies the sense of cruelty and unfeeling to the Jammdoot (the messenger of death). Clearly, by practicing cruelty to other beings, one can not lift himself to the mode of goodness; which is the beginning point of devotion (Bhagti)!
·Brahman kailee ghaat kanjkaa anchaaree kaa dhaan. Phittak phittak kor badeeaa sadaa sadaa abhimaan - He who kills a spiritual person, a cow and a daughter, and accepts the food of an evil person, he is cursed with the leprosy of curses and criticism; he is forever and ever to be filled with egotistical pride (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1413).
·Bin prabh koyi na raakhanhaar mahaa bikat jam bhayaa - Without God, there is no saving grace; the Messenger of Death is cruel and unfeeling (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 47).
In human society, there are basically two types of diseases. The main disease is spiritual (disease of soul), and the other pertains to the body (bodily diseases). Saatvic diet is one of the means that can help cure the disease of the soul.
The Bhagti-Yoga involves many principles which need to be adhered to. One of the principles involves following strict Saatvic diet. The whole process of Yoga (union with God) is to purify us. Eating habits as to how much and what to eat is an integral part of this purification. Therefore, to become a spiritual man, one needs not to give up eating, but he has to adjust his eating habits.
However, one must extremely be alert and vigilant. If one adheres to a Saatvic diet at its highest standard, but if he stops right there without following other principles of Bhagti, and if he is devoid of Name, then his spiritual progress is sure to stop right there as well. For this reason, the Saatvic diet should not be considered an end by itself, but an indispensable means to the end. This is what the Masters has tried to explain in the Gurbani to different people, in different circumstances, different environment, at different occasions and times. Unfortunately, the Masters have to use our limited language to explain the Unlimited Truth. Without intuitive reasoning and discrimination, one is subject to confusion and ambiguity about the sublime essence of the teaching of the Masters.
Once we advance in spirituality, bad habits will gradually go away. This is a sure process. Where there is a light, darkness can not and will not stay there. Once we develop a Higher taste of God consciousness, the other tastes of mundane objects will have no appeal to us. Without the Higher taste, we will be subjected to sense-salvery (i.e., animal consciousness).
·Rasnaa Hari ras chaakh muye jeeyo an ras saad gavaaye - Taste the sublime essence of the Lord with your tongue, my dear, and renounce the pleasures of other tastes (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 246).
·Ram ras peeyaa re. Jih ras bisar gaye ras or - I drink in the sublime essence of the Lord. With the taste of this essence, I have forgotten all other tastes (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 337).
·Raaraa ras niras kar jaaniyaa. Hoyi niras su ras pahichaaniyaa. Ih ras chhade oh ras aavaa. Oh ras peeyaa ih ras nahee bhaavaa - I have found worldly tastes to be tasteless. Becoming tasteless, I have realized that spiritual taste. Abandoning these worldly tastes, I have found that spiritual taste. Drinking in that (Higher) taste, this taste of mundane objects is no longer pleasing (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 342).
·Ann ras chookai Hri ras man vasaaye - One forgets other relishes when he enshrines God's name in his mind (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 115).
The spiritual guides have asserted that the physical health, mental harmony, and all-round happiness depend primarily upon one's inner thought-habits and not upon his outer luxury or pleasures. Therefore, the basic question to ask oneself is: Can I attain self-improvement and spiritual-unfoldment by a non-saatvic frame of mind? The Gurbani provides us with an authoritative answer: No! Baabaa Nanak says:
·Ras suyinaa ras rupaa kaaman ras parmal kee vaas. Ras ghore ras sejaa mandar ras meethaa ras maas. eto ras sareer ke kai ghat Naam nivaas - The pleasures of gold and silver, the pleasures of women, the pleasure of the fragrance of sandalwood, the pleasure of horses, the pleasure of a soft bed in a palace, the pleasure of sweet treats and the pleasure of eating meat—such pleasures of the human body are so numerous; how can the Naam, the Name of the Lord, find its dwelling in the heart (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 15)?

Brothers and sisters - I hope you will all find this enlightening.

 
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ek musafir ji could you please show me a full shabad in guru granth sahib
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=291
which clearly says not to eat meat.all the above you have posted are single lines
from different shabads.to understand guru granth sahib one has to read
full shabad to understand the essence of gurbani.if we all start using single lines from guru granth sahib then we will end nowhere.majority of single lines you have posted in suppot of vegetarianism has nothing to do with the issue of diet they are already being discussed in the following essay

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays...ver-flesh.html

if you are really interested in the topic of veg and non veg then please read the entire debate in the above link.

btw if by using single lines someone can prove that guru granth sahib says not to eat meat then by using single line i can also prove that eating buttered bread is also wrong according to guru granth sahib.

ਜਿਨਾ ਖਾਧੀ ਚੋਪੜੀ ਘਣੇ ਸਹਨਿਗੇ ਦੁਖ ॥੨੮॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=291
जिना खाधी चोपड़ी घणे सहनिगे दुख ॥२८॥
jinaa khaaDhee choprhee ghanay sehnigay dukh. ||28||
Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. ||28||Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji1379

S|kH

It's a real shame that this thread was set up, it has divided even more of us, and has resulted in allot of counterproductive posts. In the future, perhaps all of us on SPN will reconsider making these types of threads. It does not help anyone. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kds1980 ek musafir ji could you please show me a full shabad in guru granth sahib

Some great points KDS.

Ehk Musafir sounds like a chap called Hari Singh on Sikhi Wiki whom colleagues of mine defeated in a debate over the issue of taking one liners from Bani and proclaiming it as the divine truth. This is something Brahmanistic Sant-Mat organisation like GNNSJ etc employ.............it is really sad they should resort to such dire tactics, and make Bani look like a cheap A-la-carte menu. The systematic dismemberment of the Angs from these groups is deplorable.

The Sant-Mat propaganda posted by Ekh Musafir Ajnabi start with:

In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs;
they eat dead animals for food. They bark and speak, telling only lies;
Dharma and Vichaar have left them. Those who have no honor while alive,
will have an evil reputation after they die (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1242).

This is clearly a mistranslation. There is no mention of "dead animals":

Again, let us put this into context:

At first glance one notices that this paragraph is clearly a metaphor for people who behave like dogs. The dog is a scavenger, hunts in packs, fights within its pack, eats practically anything it can find etc etc. This entire Ang talks about people greed and those that lack honour when they are alive.
The second point to note is the mistranslation. Murdaar is not the word for meat. Murdaar is a reference to people who are dead. In other words people are acting so much like dogs that when people have died they gather round to get as much as they can. A good analogy would be inheritance, where is some instances people try and contest them or try and grab for themselves as much as they can. In India, it has not been unusual to murder siblings of inheritance disputes. In fact the word Murder in the English language has come from the word Murdaar.

This Sant-Mat propaganda starts with this clear lie...........so how do we trust the rest of it? A real shame......mods take note.

Randip Singh ji,

Many thanks for your kind insults.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=291
Wow! I have read your articles with great interest. You are gem among the Sikh community. How can Sikhs go astray when we have such a knowledgeable genius among us. I apologize for the anguish I may have caused you as it seems that this particular topic is so close to your heart. Why should it not be you have spent nearly 5 months compiling it.

I am now fully convinced that meat is not forbidden in Sikh religion.

Since you have done so much research into this topic. Perhaps you could now enlighten me as to in how many verses, tukan's etc our gurus have said that you can eat meat and that eating meat will not prohibit you from achieving unity with god. It will save me a lot of hassle.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=291

Again apologies for mis-spelling your good name Randip = Light, Ranjit = victory. But light does have a downside to its characteristics, it harbours’’ darkness at its feet.

I look forward to your offerings

Just read Guru nanak ji in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..." ( OH Pandit..) You dont even know the difference between the Ganna ( Sugarcane) and Meat !!! and here may i add that we, the SIKHS also "dont know" the differences between Ganna and and Meat..or we wouldnt be arguing on this non-issue. Guru nanak ji Sahib's question is a "rhetoricla question"..that means a question that requires NO ANSWER becasue its common sense and everybody knows the answer. Thus the answer is that there is NO DIFFERENCE between Vege and Meat..BOTh are MATTER composed of the same things and fit in with NATURE. in NATURE there is a FOOD CHAIN..and everything fits in !!!

Gyani jarnail Singh

You reallyb are a piece of work:

1) You accuse me of Manmat and then when I reply in kind you accuse me of insults.

2) I demonstrate how from the first line of the Sant Mat propaganda that you have misused the word Murdaar as meaning dead animals, when clearly it means the dead. A subtle but very clear difference.

3) I also demostrate that you have twisted a metaphor to support a Brahminist - Vaishnav Agenda. The only purpose of this can be to split Sikhs.

4) KDS has asked the question about using 1 liners from Shabads. This deplorable practice used in the Sant Mat propaganda you posted totally twists the meaning of Bani.

5) KDS has demonstrated a 1 liner from Bani:

ਜਿਨਾ ਖਾਧੀ ਚੋਪੜੀ ਘਣੇ ਸਹਨਿਗੇ ਦੁਖ ॥੨੮॥
जिना खाधी चोपड़ी घणे सहनिगे दुख ॥२८॥
jinaa khaaDhee choprhee ghanay sehnigay dukh. ||28||
Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. ||28||Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji1379

Explain this O knower of all knowledge?

Given these points how can anyone take you seriously. You sound like Hari Singh from Sikhi Wiki (who throes the proverbial toys out of the pram when he lost a debate against friends of mine who are both 18).

One final point, I have no interest in trying to enlighten you.....as you have said I represent Darkness, and for you I will always represent Darkness. Infact I am glad I can bring darkness to such un-Sikh views and cover them is a shroud of darkness.

Best Wishes

Randip Singh ji,

In due course I will give you an answer to all your questions. I am not here on a battleground with you, there is no winning and no loosing issue here. At least not from my side. It is my belief that you article is giving a wrong message to the young generation. This will eventually come out in the wash. There is no need to be hot headed. Plz contain your anger.

" You cannot insult me because i am not looking for parise from you" - quote by a saint.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=291
I again reiterate, since you have done so much research into Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Can you provide any verses, tukan's etc where our gurus have said that you can eat meat and that eating meat will not prohibit you from achieving unity with god.

"My comment to the question where this all started from was - If you are following the path of salvation/enlightenment, then one should not indulge in eating meat as it becomes a hurdle in the your path" and that this is my personal experience. I do not remember the exact quote but it was to this effect. It was not regarding your favourite topic. I believe you have mis-undertood me.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=291

Let us leave the past in the past and move forward. I hope you will agree.

Regards

I am far from angry. Just amazed at your guile.....you claim other people are talking Manmat and you expect them to take that as a complement?

Yet you see fit to insult others.......very noble.....not the conduct of a Saint or one who quotes Saints.

Note this too:

"When all other means may have been exhausted, it may be righteous to draw the sword"

That is the point.....there are no lines from Bani supporting Vegetarianism. There are no lines from Bani supporting meat eating.

Only a complete imbecile and fool would think their are lines in Bani that support Meat eating or Vegetarianism.

It is a personal choice.

Best Wishes