Dukh Bhanjani Sahib

harbansj24 · #28 (**permalink**) 11-Sep-2009, 06:57 AM

Rigt Tejwant ji,

Everyone does slide back even a Gurmukh Sant. But the extent and reach is different.

Persons like me oscillate from being a Manmukh, a Sanmukh and occasionally can only at the most reach the fringes of being a Gursikh.

But Gurmukh is different. (Gurmukh rom rom Har dhiyaveh). When he reaches the position when every pore of his being is immersed in Simran, then can he slide back to being a Manmukh? At the most he can swing between Being a Gurmukh to Brahm Gyani. Obviously he would have passed through the stages of being a
Manmukh, Sanmukh and a Gursikh. But having become Gurmukh Sant, his bar becomes much higher and he cannot tumble down to the level of Manmukh.

A Nobel Laurette Physicist can make make mistakes in higher postulates but he will never make mistakes in simple laws of gravity, although in his learning process he would have definitely passed through that stage.

Tejwant Singh · #29 (**permalink**) 11-Sep-2009, 07:16 AM

Harbans ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your write:

Quote:

But Gurmukh is different. (Gurmukh rom rom Har dhiyaveh). When he reaches the position when every pore of his being is immersed in Simran, then can he slide back to being a Manmukh? At the most he can swing between Being a Gurmukh to Brahm Gyani. Obviously he would have passed through the stages of being a Manmukh, Sanmukh and a Gursikh. But having become Gurmukh Sant, his bar becomes much higher and he cannot tumble down to the level of Manmukh.

First of all, I am sorry to say that I have no ability to know that nor do I have the capability to judge anyone how much he/she would slide back or not. All I am saying is that we humans can not be perfect and especially we Sikhs- the students and the learners. That is why our Gurus gave this name to us.

Only Ik Ong Kaar is perfect.

Secondly, I would like you to elaborate to me for my own understanding how would you define the two words Dhiyaveh and Simran ? Do they mean the same or differently and in what sense and what is the modus operandi for the both?

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh

harbansj24 · #30 (**permalink**) 11-Sep-2009, 11:23 AM

Tejwant Singh ji,

First of all I would like to remind myself, lest I get it into my silly head that whatever I am posting are my own thoughts, that I owe these to only my imperfect understanding of what Bhai Vir Singh has written. These in turn come from only from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji!

Yes only Ik Ong Kaar is perfect and mankind can never have the capability to grasp even a fraction of the greatness of it. Whereas the understanding of the qualities of a Gurmukh and Brahmgyani are within our grasp and that they can be our guides to Guru's Shabads.

Yes I have written about Har Dhiyaveh and Simran interchangeably because that is how I understood it. Maybe it is wrong.

The process of Simran is explained beautifully by Bhai Sahib in several places of his monumental works notably in Guru Nanak Chamatkar.

In a capsuled, imperfect and clumsy manner I can explain my understanding of it.

Simran can be done at any time irrespective of whatever you may busy with. There is no particular place of posture. You can just keep repeating Naam continuosly. Your mind may wander. No problem. You just just start doing it whenever you remember. It brings on in you thoughts of the Creator. As you keep up this practice you will notice that it grows on you. And as it grows it starts the process of cleansing your soul. Then we start getting that feeling of Bliss or Chardikalan.

But being ordinary mortals living in real world we slide back. No problem. We do not leave this process of Simran. It is case of 2 steps forward and one step back. As Naam Simran grows on you you become a better and better human being. The ultimate stage will be when every pore of your being exudes Simran. This is the stage when a person becomes Gurmukh as defined by Bhai Gurdas "Gurmukh Rom Rom Har dhiyaveh".
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/26528-dukh-bhanjani-sahib.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26528

The beauty of Simran is that it is completely secular. You need not use only Sikh terms. You can use the names used by other religions also for the supreme being.

There is a difference between empty meditation and Simran. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not prescribe empyt meditation. In this process you sit quietly in one place in a particular asan and do nothing. Then you mind starts to wander and nothing happens. You find that you have just wasted your time and feel frustated. Where as Simran can be done anywhwere anytime and while you are anything. The name connects you with the Creator. At some time it becomes an automatic process.

This is how I have understood it. I suggest that you read at least Guru Nanak Chamatkar and I am sure all your questions wil be answered. And you being more intelligent than I am, I am sure that you will be able to interpret Bhai Sahib's writings much better than I have been able to do in this forum.

Gurfateh, regards and Chardi Kalan.

Harbans Singh

Tejwant Singh · #31 (**permalink**) 12-Sep-2009, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harbansj24

Tejwant Singh ji,

First of all I would like to remind myself, lest I get it into my silly head that whatever I am posting are my own thoughts, that I owe these to only my imperfect understanding of what Bhai Vir Singh has written. These in turn come from only from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji!

Yes only Ik Ong Kaar is perfect and mankind can never have the capability to grasp even a fraction of the greatness of it. Whereas the understanding of the qualities of a Gurmukh and Brahmgyani are within our grasp and that they can be our guides to Guru's Shabads.

Yes I have written about Har Dhiyaveh and Simran interchangeably because that is how I understood it. Maybe it is wrong.

The process of Simran is explained beautifully by Bhai Sahib in several places of his monumental works notably in Guru Nanak Chamatkar.

In a capsuled, imperfect and clumsy manner I can explain my understanding of it.

Simran can be done at any time irrespective of whatever you may busy with. There is no particular place of posture. You can just keep repeating Naam continuosly. Your mind may wander. No problem. You just just start doing it whenever you remember. It brings on in you thoughts of the Creator. As you keep up this practice you will notice that it grows on you. And as it grows it starts the process of cleansing your soul. Then we start getting that feeling of Bliss or Chardikalan.

But being ordinary mortals living in real world we slide back. No problem. We do not leave this process of Simran. It is case of 2 steps forward and one step back. As Naam Simran grows on you you become a better and better human being. The ultimate stage will be when every pore of your being exudes Simran. This is the stage when a person becomes Gurmukh as defined by Bhai Gurdas "Gurmukh Rom Rom Har dhiyaveh".

The beauty of Simran is that it is completely secular. You need not use only Sikh terms. You can use the names used by other religions also for the supreme being.

There is a difference between empty meditation and Simran. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not prescribe empyt meditation. In this process you sit quietly in one place in a particular asan and do nothing. Then you mind starts to wander and nothing happens. You find that you have just wasted your time and feel frustated. Where as Simran can be done anywhwere anytime and while you are anything. The name connects you with the Creator. At some time it becomes an automatic process.

This is how I have understood it. I suggest that you read at least Guru Nanak Chamatkar and I am sure all your questions wil be answered. And you being more intelligent than I am, I am sure that you will be able to interpret Bhai Sahib's writings much better than I have been able to do in this forum.

Gurfateh, regards and Chardi Kalan.

Harbans Singh

Harbans Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the lovely post and yes, I have read Nanak Chamatkar and enjoyed it very much.

First of all, let me make one thing clear, I am neither a Sikh Scholar, Historian, intellect or a very intelligent person, nor do I intend or pretend to be either of these things.

I just like to think aloud with the cyber Sadh Sangat and this venue gives me the honour and the privilege to do that. And lastly I learn a lot from interaction with people like you and others.

We are all Sikhs here and we learn from each other.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

harpreetkooner · #32 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2010, 07:21 AM

I apologize if i m mistaken while writing.

I am not a scholar like you people not a great religious person. but because this is discussion about Dukhbhanjani sahab, i must share my experience.
I never believe that by prayer or believe you can acheive something, i always believe that success only come by hardwork, determination and inteligence so i always beleive in myself not God. but when we (me n my husband) arrived australia, after passing five months with all our efforts and inteligence we could not get work, all money which we brought with us was finish. there was not a single ray of hope. Then i started believing may be i should ask God for help. I was having Gutka sahabs of Nitnem and duhbhanjni sahab. And then i started chanting this Shabad for'' MAYA DI PRAPTI LAYE'' LAKHMI TOT NA AAVE for 40 days 108 times a day in the morning before sunrise after ishnan. And then waheguru g blessed me and got job within those 40 days and my husband got very good job after completion of 40 days. And with waheguru g ki kirpa after that we never lack of money MAYA.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26528
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26528

I dnt consider it miracle but believe. Because i never believe in God but when i started believing God blessed me and made my believe more stronger. whatsoever, it was only one shabad from Gurbani that changed our life. it does not matter who published it for what purpose, but the truth is it s the part of Great Gurbani.

Astroboy · #33 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2010, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harpreetkooner

I apologize if i m mistaken while writing.

I am not a scholar like you people not a great religious person. but because this is discussion about Dukhbhanjani sahab, i must share my experience.
I never believe that by prayer or believe you can acheive something, i always believe that success only come by hardwork, determination and inteligence so i always beleive in myself not God. but when we (me n my husband) arrived australia, after passing five months with all our efforts and inteligence we could not get work, all money which we brought with us was finish. there was not a single ray of hope. Then i started believing may be i should ask God for help. I was having Gutka sahabs of Nitnem and duhbhanjni sahab. And then i started chanting this Shabad for'' MAYA DI PRAPTI LAYE'' LAKHMI TOT NA AAVE for 40 days 108 times a day in the morning before sunrise after ishnan. And then waheguru g blessed me and got job within those 40 days and my husband got very good job after completion of 40 days. And with waheguru g ki kirpa after that we never lack of money MAYA.

I dnt consider it miracle but believe. Because i never believe in God but when i started believing God blessed me and made my believe more stronger. whatsoever, it was only one shabad from Gurbani that changed our life. it does not matter who published it for what purpose, but the truth is it s the part of Great Gurbani.

harpreetkooner Ji,

Gurfateh to you.
Here's a link at SPN (click here 11) which might be of further use to you. Starts from page 2 for all your Sharda Pooran choice of Shabads. The thread's name is 300 Saal Guru De Naal.

~namjap~