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Ardaas Changed

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 23-May-2009, 01:34 AM
Inder singh's Avatar Inder singh Inder singh is offline
 
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re: Ardaas Changed

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Quote:
I find it strange that bhagauti is removed though. I know people can use that term to refer to Chandhi but it can also mean sword.
In chandi di vaar we read

Lai bhaguati durgseh varjagan bhari

( Durga took fire emitting bhgauti ( sword) in her hand
and fought a fierce battle)

Bhagauti is a sword symbolising Akal purakh.



 
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 23-May-2009, 03:45 AM
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re: Ardaas Changed

Dear Members, This is a very good start to change from the entenched 17th century ritualistic Sikhi to the 21st century. I welcome this courageous stand by the Finland Parbandaks of forthright and foresight. I hope and pray that the other Sikhs of Diaspora get their guidance from this initiative. There are many (and many) worthless rituals in Sikh customs which go against the very fundamental grain of Sikh Gurbani and the teachings of our Gurus. Let us propogate Sikh and Sikhi of AGGS, and move away from the Khalsa rituals which are more akin to Brahmanism. (period).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/25092-ardaas-changed.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092
-par (parminder)singh
usa
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 23-May-2009, 04:32 AM
Sidqui sikh's Avatar Sidqui sikh Sidqui sikh is offline
 
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re: Ardaas Changed

This is something which is technically and conceptually very wrong as both sikhs and hindus are worshipers of Bhagoti the power of one supreme God. Hindus mainly worsipping it in sargun form in the form of Chandi and the sikhs mainly in the Nirgun form.It is written in the shastras that without shakti(Power) ,Shiv(God) is as good as a Shav(Corpse) therefore the central theme of the ardaas shold not be changed.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 23-May-2009, 07:02 AM
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re: Ardaas Changed

There we go again. our real Ardas should be 'too thaakur tum peh ardaas. AGGS-268-1' as per the Hukam of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, who ordained AGGS as our everpresent Guru for all ages to come. Now fast forward to the present, these and many other issues (mostly identity based), we are arguing about in vain. Maybe there are as many Sikh Religions as the number of Sikhs in this world. My thinking in my statement was that we have a huge baggage of rituals, and it has become even heavier by the influence of the dominant Brahminic intelligence, which our Gurus earnestly wanted to erase from our lives. That said, I want to qualify here that I am an old MONA SIKH. I percieve the simple truth about various issues of Sikhs as - 'every Khalsa is a Sikh, but not every Sikh is a Khalsa'. These are TWO separate entities, and should live in harmony and with absolute respect for each other. I am a Sikh of AGGS. It is time to follow the teachings of our Gurus, let us all work to remove the shackles of rituals, which got added upon us without even our knowing.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092
-par singh
usa
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 23-May-2009, 07:44 AM
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Re: Ardaas Changed

parminder

Beginning pauri of aradas is by Guru Gobind singh ji. You write that you obey Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as your Guru because Guru Gobind singh asked sikhs to do that. If you accept his this hukam then why do not accept his Hukam of getting baptized. If you consider that a ritual then why you attach singh with your name? You could be very called a lal or chand or Kumar also.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092

There are no different versions of sikhism. Sikhism has ten masters from ist to tenth. Their teachings and acts are equally important for sikhs.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 23-May-2009, 07:50 AM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Ardass changed..

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsgrewal48895 View Post
Dear All,

IMHO prayer and its words can be individualized but have a question from where did 35 Bhagats came; where as a breakdown of the 5,867 hymns found in the Guru Granth Sahib; include the writings of 6 Gurus, 15 Bhagats (of different faiths), 3 Sikh Bards, 8-17 Bhatts, and Raag Mala?

Cordially,

Virinder
Respected Grewal Ji,
Gurfateh.

Imho..the figure 35 is arived at... 15 + 3 + 17 = 35. Writer of Raagmala is UNKNOWN.
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 23-May-2009, 09:13 AM
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Re: Ardass changed..

Dear Giani Ji,

Thanks for the information about 35 though not exactly accurate. Here are my two cents on Raag Mala;


RAG MALA/ਰਾਗਮਾਲਾ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092


In A.D. 1583, a Mohammedan poet by the name of Alim wrote “Madhva Nal Sangit” describing the love affair of Madhava Nal with his beloved Kam Kandala. This work consisted of 353 stanzas of four to six lines each. Rag Mala in AGGS is a part of the above work from sixty third to seventy second stanzas. The account of this story also appears in the tale 91 of Chirtro Pakhyan of Dasam Granth.

AGGS is written in 31 modes of music. The Rag Mala in AGGS describes about 17 of these Raags, Raginis and their subdivisions as sons and daughters of these Ragas. Each Raag is accompanied by five sub-ragas, much like their spouses, along with 8 meters, as their sons, which the musicians sing. By the sunrise they sing, the “Bhairou Raag” along with five more sub-ragas in an accompaniment. First they sing Raag Bhairvi, then Bilawali, second, along with Punia, third, and Bangli, the fourth. Then the fifth sub-raga of Aslekhi, ragini, is sung. These are just the five sub-ragas of Raag Bhairou.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092

Pancham, Harkh and Disakh are sung next, followed by Bangalam and Madhu Ragas. They are all repeated once more along with Bilawal as the eight shoots of Raag Bhairou. Other Ragas follow similarly. The Ragas mentioned here do not correspond to the Ragas in AGGS. It should be understood that:

A. Rag Mala is NOT Gurbani.

B. It is not clear how and when it was included in the sacred AGGS.

It further raises few questions;

How many Sikhs know about the number of Ragas used in AGGS?

How many Raagis know about these Ragas and sing the Gurbani in the Ragas it is supposed to be sung as written?
How does reading it affect one’s spirituality, how ever it educates one about the Ragas IMHO?

If Mundavani is the seal placed by Guru Arjan to AGGS then why Guru Gobind Singh broke the seal by adding his father’s Bani and his Sloke # 54 in response to his father’s Sloke # 53 on page 1429 of AGGS.

The above should not be viewed as contentious since the inclusion of Raag Mala has done no harm. On the contrary one learns something about Ragas, through their inclusion and they broaden one’s perspective on music a bit. Hopefully all the Gurbani of AGGS is sung in the modes of music it is written.

Cordially,

Virinder S. Grewal
Williamston, MI
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 23-May-2009, 09:28 AM
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Re: Ardass changed..


PRAYER/ਅਰਦਾਸ

It is a conscious realization of a personal intimate relationship with Holy Omnipotent God, putting aside all selfish desires so one can experience communion with the Akal Purkh, while being hindered by worldly egos. It is a supplication for benefits either for one’s self (petition) or for others (intercession). To pray is to know how to stand still and to dwell on the Word. It is the opportunity to remind one’s self of his priorities and what is most important and vital. Prayer is a reflexive verb meaning. Reciting prayer with belief and conviction literally is the service of the heart and reciting it with out belief in it is lip service. Through prayer one connects to a higher source of love and energy, whenever there is a need of comfort or direction. There is no other better way to open up to the universal, loving, and Universal Creative Energy available to human species.

God is unknowable, infinite, unapproachable (beyond the reaches of human intellect), formless, and imperceptible. One should pray to the Creator and not to the things created by the It. Prayer does not require a language to communicate and can be done successfully in silence. All Knower is neither blind nor deaf and knows what is unsaid.

Prayer describes a state of mind of complete surrender to God in which a person becomes humility incarnate. God is always merciful and kind. Its nature is giving not taking. God never bounces back prayer from humble servants. However all powers are with God, which implies that to answer a prayer is Its prerogative. It is not a check that you can draw on the bank of God, whenever you are hard put to meet your needs. Prayer always springs out of a sense of need and belief, that God is a rewarder of them who seek it diligently whether literate or illiterate. True prayer coming out from the depths of the heart and bereft of selfish desires with complete unconditional surrender is always answered. The only way to compel the God is to love and praise, appreciate, and be thankful with an attitude of gratitude.

We may think of prayer as thoughts or feelings expressed in words. Contemplative prayer is the opening of mind and heart- our whole being- to Akal Purkh, the ultimate mystery, beyond thoughts, words and emotions. We open our awareness to the God whom we know by faith with in us, closer than breathing, closer than thinking and closer than consciousness it self and is perceptible in each one’s heart.

The Truest prayer is “Not my will but Thine will be done” followed by dutiful and energetic action. We can only aspire to bring our lives, our wishes and thoughts in to harmony with the Divine Law. It means we have to ask in spirit of unselfishness and purity of heart, desiring nothing but submitting unconditionally to the Universal Spirit. Thus freeing the mind of attachments and desires. All that is remained was pure supreme light “the seed of our existence and identity”.

We are born naked and we leave naked. Yet in between we accumulate wealth, family, belongings, a good name, religious pride, pride of the body, and good looks. In themselves they are just things-neither good nor bad. These attachments in our minds have to be destroyed in the fire of focusing contemplative meditation.

The Truth will be revealed when the mind is freed “Oh man recognize yourself,” and see the source of pure supreme light. The aim of the seeker on this path is to have no aims for any desires. When you have no desires, you have conquered the all-wandering mind. The mind is the total sum of desires. The mind is like a bird flying aimlessly, and going in to the future hopes and desires or running back in to the past memories and sorrows. Most people spend their lives like this, resulting in stress, depression, burnt out, no happiness, and uncontented, unfulfilled hopes, bitterness, negativity and so on.

Ordinary consciousness is made up of desires, cravings, fears, and prejudices, fixed ideas, habits and lower instincts. The mysterious central power is located in Our Self. So we should strive to seek with in. Close the outer senses and open the eye of the mind upon the world with in.
Most prayers are more or less selfish requests to God to make exceptions in favor of the petitioner, which if not granted leads to:

• Loosing faith.

• Killing self-reliance.

• Developing more ferocious selfishness and egotism than what is already endowed by nature.
If one’s devotion is sincere, a response is drawn from the field of Universal Creative Energy that may be interpreted as an answer to the prayer. Prayer response, or having needs met without asking for assistance, does not prove that God cares for us (we understand caring expressed by one person to another). The situation and the process do not need to be analyzed and explained: if the relationship satisfies the seeking heart, with results following that is sufficient. Complete understanding will unfold with illumination of consciousness.

Because God's nature is what it is, so long as we have even a faint intellectual grasp or partial intuitive insight of the reality of God, there should be no questions in our minds about whether or not God loves us, cares for us, approves of us, or wants us to awaken spiritually. This is all right if one is willing to learn and to grow in knowledge and grace. A contrasting condition, which is also self-defeating, is an attitude of individual superiority, which may be expressed as arrogance, and denial of any need for a relationship with the Higher Power.

There are and always have been human beings who have progressed spiritually beyond the majority of race and i.e. what we are aspiring in this spiritual growth. The whole purpose of life is to strengthen character, which is the school of conscience, by humbly requesting God to remove our character defects.

One should implore for the strength to subjugate the lower instinct and fortitude to develop the higher instincts.

Conclusion:

Prayer is not a way to manipulate God in to doing what an individual desires but it is an attempt to get in to fellowship with God. In prayer one should try to figure out what he or she should be as Akal Purkh wants him/her to be rather than asking God what It should do. In prayer one should accept Akal Purkh’s Will (ਭਾਣਾ) and say that, “Thy Will be done”. The wording of the prayer does not matter and can be individualized by the petitioner. It is the sincerity of the prayer, which matters. It is the motive that makes difference between true and false prayer. Only the prayer coming from the depths of the heart is accepted at the door of the Creator. Other prayers are self-deception and hypocrisy.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092
Prayer is the constant yearning to know the Truth and be worthy of it. It is the striving of the mind towards its parent Divinity the Universal Spirit. Outwardly prayer should express it- self in actions by which we strive to manifest, which is best in us.

Cordially,
Virinder S.Grewal
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 23-May-2009, 09:53 AM
GillAUS's Avatar GillAUS GillAUS is offline
 
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Re: Ardaas Changed

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This is terrible news. There is nothing 'revolutionary' changing around the opening part of the Ardaas because this is from the holy pen of Guru Gobind Singh and has been taken from Chandi Di Vaar, which IS GURBANI.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092

Adding parts to Ardaas AFTER this can perhaps be done however, there should be consensus amongst the sangat.

I guess these people think their penmanship is greater than Guru Gobind Singh's.
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