On God, Energy and Principle

The God of Gurbani is kind, caring, loving, merciful,
compassionate, forgiving, nurturing and benevolent.

Can Energy or the Universal Principle be kind, caring,
loving, merciful, compassionate, forgiving, nurturing
and benevolent?

Creation is not a random process. Creation demands
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24995-on-god-energy-and-principle.html
intelligence and deliberation. For beautiful cars to
come out of a manufacturing plant, we need a
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24995
designer. The raw materials are not going to
self-assemble themselves into a car on their own.

Does Energy or the Universal Principle possess
intelligence that is essential for creation?

 
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mystique_void ji

Such beautiful words of devotion for Waheguru. Reminds me of this on Ang 8 of Japj(u)ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24995


ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥
kar kar vaekhai nadhar nihaal ||
Having created the creation, He watches over it. By His Glance of Grace, He bestows happiness.


ਤਿਥੈ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਵਰਭੰਡ ॥
thithhai khandd manddal varabhandd ||
There are planets, solar systems and galaxies.


ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਥੈ ਤ ਅੰਤ ਨ ਅੰਤ ॥
jae ko kathhai th anth n anth ||
If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end.


ਤਿਥੈ ਲੋਅ ਲੋਅ ਆਕਾਰ ॥
thithhai loa loa aakaar ||
There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation.


ਜਿਵ ਜਿਵ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤਿਵੈ ਤਿਵ ਕਾਰ ॥
jiv jiv hukam thivai thiv kaar ||
As He commands, so they exist.


ਵੇਖੈ ਵਿਗਸੈ ਕਰਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
vaekhai vigasai kar veechaar ||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24995
He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, He rejoices.

Many may argue that not all creation demands intelligence and deliberation, intricately pointing out charts and keen observations of natural events (events as small as mitosis or as trivial as the ‘creation’ of feces).

The evolutionist’s have proof without certainty and the creationist’s certainty without proof. For the creationist every avenue of circumstance is the result of an unimaginable omnipotence actively providing agency through divine willpower. This philosophy does not actively encourage nor facilitate the attainment or betterment of knowledge. This philosophy becomes especially negative if it impedes; investigation, curiosity and imagination. Intuitively it seems that those who make the divine powerful are trying to escape the responsibility of self-observation and self-contemplation.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24995

Despite the fact that a large number of people are creationists, investigation of random events continues (anything from investigating weather patterns, economics, emergence of dominant viral strains etc). Deist thought exists even amongst the most devout, primarily because; every human is a rational human being (rationality being the agency that ensures survival, rationality being a prerequisite for survival).

Bronislaw Malinowski while observing the tribes of Papua New Guinea found that the first recourse of a fisherman with a torn net is to reweave his net and then have himself blessed by a high priest, not the other way around. Simply put; the flight and fight response precedes our emotional/faith based spirit.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24995




‘Creation’ is an ineffective word in metaphysics, because a thought of creation extrapolates to ad infinitum, the word is of little interest to a pragmatist or an ontological thinker. Likewise ‘Universal Principle’ would be a useless word to a relativist.

“Do Energy or the Universal Principle possesses
intelligence that is essential for creation?”

what is intelligence?

c h e e r s

Sinister ji

Based on some things you have said on another thread or two -- about your own view of Divine nature -- you have an interesting thesis working. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds. You definitely do not conflate science and religion. One thing that I find interesting in this regard. There is only one religion that I am aware of that considers the Divine to be a Universal Principle. It is the Christian Science Religion. Do not know too much about this faith, but I certainly wonder how the line between the metaphysical and the cosmological is drawn by them. Thank you for your thought provoking remarks.

If we humans with our consciousness are just small part of whole energy, then is it possible that whole energy too have own consciousness?
Is our consciousness just part of larger consciousness, like instincts are part of our consciousness (they come and vanish)?
Does references in Gurbani about beating the death means expanding our consciousness to larger consciousness by breaking walls which hold us within confinement of this mortal body?

These emotions are upper emotions on the rainbow of emotions starting with most selfish ones. Even the animals and most of the humans experience lower range of emotions like satisfying body needs and doing actions which are just for self ego.
But when humans experience emotions which result in actions which are not for self (mercy, forgiveness, self sacrifice etc), it shows glimpse of existence of higher consciousness which we are part of and just can't experience with our own limitations.

Lallihayer ji

what is energy? … to my understanding it is a human physical construct to explain and predict natural phenomena.

Energetically humans and all living matter are agents that use energy to decrease entropy (while we are living we exhibit Disentrophic Behaviour). While non-living matter expends energy that increases entropy humans expend energy that decreases local entropy at the expense of increasing the entropy of our surroundings. So, in effect, the energy expended by humans and that expended by the non-living universe are used for two different purposes, provided the ‘whole’ is a closed system.

Thus energy can only develop consciousness if it is used to decrease local entropy. Hence the existence of consciousness of something like the “whole energy” is unimaginable or at least irrational (as it would violate the laws of thermodynamics).

just a little thought experiment i wipped up.

Do lower planes of consciousness like animals ( and big number of humans ) know about higher planes of consciousness? Can they reason that there exist higher planes of consciousness?
Are laws of thermodynamics are absolute and final? Do we know it all ? ( I know much less than sangat here)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24995
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24995
Are we on the top of pyramid ( with all other planes of consciousness below us)?
Every century, year, month brings new discoveries, principles, laws. Are we certain we have gained absolute knowledge this moment? Nothing more follows?

Sinister Ji
Guru Fateh !
Glad to see your post.
You wrote
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24995
“what is energy? … to my understanding it is a human physical construct to explain and predict natural phenomena.”

Aren’t you limiting the meaning of energy?
What about the energy “Air” possess?
And “Lightening” Is it human physical construct?
What about the energy in the gravity of the earth? You can say, it is just gravity but in its existence, energy/power exists too.
I feel “energy” is a word to define power being displayed (or in existence to be displayed) by different visible or invisible sources.
You wrote
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24995
"This philosophy becomes especially negative if it impedes; investigation, curiosity and imagination. Intuitively it seems that those who make the divine powerful are trying to escape the responsibility of self-observation and self-contemplation. "

It doesn’t impede at all any kind of investigation; it depends at who you are hinting at? Believers of the true powerful divine power must be open for new experiment, investigation etc. Given life itself is an inspiration for a fine mind to rise further above. Thanks.


Regards