Rituals, Symbols and Spiritual Cleansing

Respected PK70 Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24516-rituals-symbols-and-spiritual-cleansing.html

Thank you very much for the Sabd. Please review my article posted on that very topic of Rituals.

It is time to close this topic.

Cordially,

Virinder
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Guru Piayario Jios,
Gurfateh.

This morning at the Gurdwara after Asa Dee Vaar, in a discussion about SPN..a Gurbani studnet of mine came up with an observation.

All the TUKS..the Shabads that appear in the Gurbani of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..regarding Rituals/outside clothing/marks etc NOT related to INNER SPIRITUALITY etc are Mainly aimed at the BRAHMINS/PANDITS/DHARAM DE THEKEDAARS.
Its the Brahmin/Pandit that wore the Tilak/the Double Dhotee, etc etc ONLY while leading the PRAYERS..for the FAITHFUL.

Guru Ji also met the MUSLIMS...and since their Kazis/mullahs DONT wear certain clothing ONLY for PRAYING/Give an appearance of being Holy....Gurbani condones their Namaaz..their Musalla..Prayer Mat etc etc and Gives an INSIGHT into what the Five namaazs..the prayer mat etc shoudl be..as GIven for the JANEAU ( which is worn by ALL HINDUS and is NOT specially worn for PRAYERS ONLY )
Guru Ji doesnt SAY..a namaaz is USELESS..DONT DO IT....but that HOW it should be !!!

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516
2. Guru Ji saw the AArtee being performed in the Mandirs....and didnt say thats WRONG..Dont do it...BUT wrote a shabad giving his insight into the "Right" aartee. Now the same would apply to a group of Ragis performing the same thaal thingy in front of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..they are NOT doing the RIGHT aartee

2. The 5 Kakaars are NOT worn just when PRAYING. They are NOT worn just by the LEADERS..the Gyanis/jathedars..But by ALL..even the commonest Labourer. They are for LIFE..for ALL...soemthing that doesnt apply to the dhotees, the tilaks and the janeaus mentioned. Therefore its wrong to compare the two and quote Gurbani tuks to support Doing away with the 5 Kakars and Khandeh Batte dee pahul as not necesary for spiritual growth.

Just some random thoughts which cropped up....and convinced a few more to sign up for Amrit Sanskaar this coming KHALSA DAY

Dear Giani Ji,

IMHO if Guru Nanak would have been here he would have said the same thing to Sikhs as he told the Muslim, Brahmin, Jain, Yogi etc to first develop truthful living, contentment, compassion, humility, and fortitude with subjugation of lower instincts of Lust, anger, greed, attachment, and vanity/Haoumai. 5 K's alone are not enough for spirituality. One has to earn it by working on the virtues, it does not come automatically otherwise it becomes simple you wear 5 K's and you are liberated or conquered SERENITY. I am not denegrating 5 K's but making a plea to go beyond them as some ignorant will think to be an end to the means.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516

Thanks for your constructive thoughts.

Regards.

Cordially,

[quote=vsgrewal48895;97700]Dear Giani Ji,

IMHO if Guru Nanak would have been here he would have said the same thing to Sikhs as he told the Muslim, Brahmin, Jain, Yogi etc to first develop truthful living, contentment, compassion, humility, and fortitude with subjugation of lower instincts of Lust, anger, greed, attachment, and vanity/Haoumai. 5 K's alone are not enough for spirituality. One has to earn it by working on the virtues, it does not come automatically otherwise it becomes simple you wear 5 K's and you are liberated or conquered SERENITY. I am not denegrating 5 K's but making a plea to go beyond them as some ignorant will think to be an end to the means.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516

Thanks for your constructive thoughts.

Regards.


Respected VSGREWAL Ji

You have addressed to our respected member Gyani ji, I hope you would not mind answering my question in this context because I strongly feel that what you are saying is right thing but you are expressing it in a wrong way, in other words it can trigger disinterest in 5 Kakaars
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516
Here is my question
Did Guru Gobind Singh ji ever said in 1699, " fight first five enimies within then come to me for Amrit? "Or he let all who were willing to take Amrit?

Regards
G Singh

Dear PK70 Ji,

I will say the same thing with due apologies to every one that after having baptism, game is not over, individual has to develop virtues and subjugate lower instincts-we are not playing a game. Spirituality is a serios subject for me. We can agree to disagree on this.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516

I thought You all should agree with it.

Thanks.

Virinder

Dear G Singh Ji,

I apologize if my English sentence is put in an incorrect way to Giani Ji, who might be spiritually wise and I do respect his wisdom but I am 15 years older than him (being a Dhillon-he is my Maternal Uncle in the usual Panjabi way). Please help me in restructuring my language in the right way. May be I do not have the proper English words, being just a retired Urologist and not an MA in English. It will make you happy and my apology will be in order as I am at fault.
Thanks for your help.

Regards.

Cordially,

Virinder

PS; A fault which humbles a person is of more use than a good action, which puffs him/her up.

ਗਰੀਬੀ ਗਦਾ ਹਮਾਰੀ॥ ਖੰਨਾ ਸਗਲ ਰੇਨ ਛਾਰੀ॥ ਇਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕੋ ਨ ਟਿਕੈ ਵੇਕਾਰੀ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਏਹ ਗਲ ਸਾਰੀ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516

Gareebee Gadda Hamaree, Khanna Sagal Rayn Chaari, Iss Aagai Ko Na Tikai Vaykaaree,Gur Pooray Ayh Gal Saaree.

Humility is my mace, and being the dust of the dust of all men’s feet is my two edged sword, which no evildoer can withstand. The matter has been arranged by the perfect Guru. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 628-13

Respected VSGREWAL Ji

If you have noticed from Gyani ji's posts, there is obviously hidden respect for you even when he has noticed a big difference in your application of Gurbani in different issues( I too feel the same way). Kindly keep in mind that there is no intention to disrespect you at all. We all are humans, we fall now and then but our efforts to over come our limitations keep us in progress.
If you have noticed in my post where I have put a question for you, I agreed with you for battling primal forces within. I mentioned that, kindly reread that. So that is not the issue. Question was " Did Guru Gobind Singh ji first make all people clean within before giving them Amrit Or he let all have who were willing to have?
Whole life passes in battling with primal forces, shouldnt amrit ceremony be taken and start the battle? What is wrong with that? If it is takeen when mind is ready, it is alright. If some think, they dont feel to have it, that is fine but to advocate against it by saying that more important is inner cleaning is not right way. Respected VSGrewal Ji, no one is saying that only after taking amrit one becomes spiritual.
Hope this time you will try to understand what actually Gyani ji and I are saying in context of five Kakars.
Regards
G Singh

Dear respected G Singh Ji,

We both are on the same page and frequency-it is the English wording while describing it looks that way. My way of saying is if you take Amrit but not clean inside-IMHO you are disrespecting the Amrit (We read it in the media every day). You must first become worth it or become a candidate to be fit to take Amrit or you take Amrit then do not disrespect it by lying or what ever etc.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516

Those who are on the way of progressing in spirituality respect and slander is the same. Please read my next post on slander/disrespect-which may clarify it further.

Now we have reached the same conclusion, please let it go-it is the end from my side.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24516

With my respects to you and Giani Ji.

Respectfully Submitted,

Virinder

Respected vsgrewal Ji, thanks

regards
G Singh