Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain

I read somewhere that following quote is written by Guru Gobind singh ji

"Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain"
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24047-raj-bina-nahin-dharam-chale-hain.html

Does anybody has Idea In which granth this quote is written?
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Guru Gobind Singh Ji is not the author of these lines, neither is this from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24047
Best regards
Mohinder Sahni

Mohinder ji

You know it is all over the Internet that these words are by Nanak X. Mostly in youth forums. But read this below. It seems that the verse is very controversial

Jamarai (Tarn Taran), July 6
Source http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20080707/punjab1.htm

An unsavoury situation occurred during a gathering organised to pay tributes to Balkar Singh, who was shot dead by guards of Dera Sacha Sauda chief in Mumbai, here today when jathedar of Akal Takht Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti and SAD (Amritsar) president Simranjit Singh Mann entered into a verbal duel.



The cause of the verbal duel between them was a hymn “Raj bina nahi dharm chale hai...,” which, Mann said, was part of Gurbani. Vedanti contradicted it, accusing Mann of misleading the Sikh community by relating it to Gurbani.


During their arguments, the gathering raised slogans of “Khalistan” zindabad and brandished their swords. Jathedar Vedanti stopped his address midway and left the venue.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24047



Meanwhile, president of the SGPC Avtar Singh declared that the portrait of Balkar Singh would be installed at Central Sikh Museum at the Golden Temple in Amritsar. He gave Rs 1 lakh to the deceased’s mother and announced that a family member, who fulfilled the conditions, would be provided a job with the SGPC.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24047



Minister for rural development and panchayat Ranjit Singh Brahmpura expressed sympathy with the family.



In a resolution passed on the occasion, Akal Takht and other organisations called upon the Sikh masses not to be misled by living gurus.


So where did it come from? Very weird... A writer on one blog says it comes from Guru Nanak. Most believe that it was stated by Guru Gobind Singh. But I searched and it is not in either Bani.

I vaguely recall that it was from a manuscript copy of Rattan Singh Bhangu's Panth Prakaash that has since been lost. Could be wrong though.

Regardless who penned it down it, it reveals the truth History verifies it and we witness everyday

Dear Gyani Arshi ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have a personal request to make.

Can you please interpret this in lay man's terms and also shed some light how this is related to the Miri-Piri life of Sikhi?

Thanks and Regards
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24047

Tejwant Singh

No exact proof of the writer exists. But one thing is certainly their that it tally's with the basic concept and teachings of Guru Gobind singh jee. Could be a verse from many of his poems or one written by his 52 great poets.

Dear Tejwant Ji,
Gurfateh.

Imho..this is one of those sayings....that put theory into practise.
My understanding of thsi is that RAAJ......POLITICAL POWER is very necessary ingredient to speed up the rapid spread of a "religion....or any other ideology"
1. Christianity began its rapid spread once the RAAJA..the KINGS were converted....thus Europe turned Christian soon after...then came the Christian Roman Empire...Crusades...etc etc..
2. Christianity spread worldwide..due to the " Christain Whiteman" grabbing political power and COLONISING the world.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24047
3. Islam came on the scene..and spread rapidly only after it began to use the SWORD...conquer...and take over political power...the Caliphates..the Mughal Empire...
4. Today Isalm is the power behind the govts of more than 40 Govts - remove that power and bring in democracy..freedom of religion..and islam will rapidly decline....

The Difference in this Phrase is the QUALIFYING....DHARAM BINA SABH DALLEH MALLEH HAIN.
The Writer says that although RELIGION cannot spread rapidly without POLITICAL POWER. HE INSISTS .that POLITICAL POWER MUST be SUBSERVIENT TO DHARAM !! IF DHARAM is neglected..then ABSOLUTE POWER will be CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY..as is happening worldwide in many countries and so called Religious Countries !! Chaos results...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24047

That is my understanding in layman terms..

and if i may add..this is also true for political ideologies like Communism..Marxism. These would have just remained theories on paper..if not successful in grabbing and keeping a stranglehold on political power in USSR Eastern Europe, China Vietnamese etc. When this power was absolute and in the hands of afew...it fell as in the fall of the USSR.Eastern Europe...and may be slowly happening in China.. IF these Leaders had some "goodness" like Dharam backing their actions..they would have succeeded a little longer..but they became dictators Stalin, Lenin, Khrsuhchev...with no morality of good actions.....
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24047

2. KHALSA increased rapidly during the time of Mahraja ranjit Singh - political power....and the numbers declined just as rapidly when the Empire Collpased within 50 years....State Patronage helped a whole lot...but most were merely opportunists...converting to sikhism to earn favours- with not much DHARAM...so became dallaeh malleh soon...