Dera Culture

Jaswinder Singh Rekhi · #1 (**permalink**) 14-Feb-2009, 20:05 PM

Most of the sikhs in punjab are following the various ders in Punjab.All the deras are being run by the so called Sants (Thugs) who consider themselves as God's superior messangers.They are ruining the sikh community to the extent of finishing within next ten years
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Soul_jyot · #2 (**permalink**) 14-Feb-2009, 22:53 PM

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:

We must first focus on and define the causes : What attracts the "people" to these Deras ? How can we fulfil those desired needs within the Sikh institutions? Genuine actions are a must, not mere words !

Harbhajan

source: http://www.southasiapost.org/2007/20071031/features.htm

Caste, Gender and the Sikhs
By Balvinder

THE Supreme Court of India recently confirmed life imprisonments for three Sikh men, accused of ‘honour kills’. While delivering the judgment one of the judges, Justice H.S. Bedi expressed his anguish and disbelief by stating that how could such a thing happen in a family of Sikhs, who are fundamentally opposed to caste, based classifications.

The Sikhs are expected nay ordained by their religion to keep their woman folk in high esteem. Yet Punjab, where they are in majority, is currently facing an imbalance in the sex ratio that is tilting heavily against female population; and for no hidden reasons. Both nadi mar [smokers] and kudi mar [killers of daughters] are back with vengeance.

While nothing tangible is being done to tackle these burning issues that have been disturbing the Sikh social fabric, many a non-issue are raked almost regularly.

Specific issues apart, the pictures of 'angst-ridden' protesting Sikhs, belonging to different politico-religious organisations that have come up in large numbers both in India and abroad, keep appearing in the media almost regularly.
The range of these generally 'peaceful' protests, brandishing swords et al, from local to international levels, being so wide, it perhaps can not be measured in quantum. It is another story that many of these seemingly loud agitations, due to their ingenious dramatization by the media, often have less number of actual agitators than the flock of press photographers and journalists!

Equally enigmatic remain the purposes and profits of such recurring agitations. Take for instance the ongoing demonstrations that are being organised against religious 'atrocities' that allegedly are inflicted, rather 'discriminately', particularly upon Sikhs living and working in the Western countries!

'Atrocities'? Like that of preventing, as per the Western local laws, a handful of Sikhs from wearing weapons ('kirpans') or turbans at work places or educational institutions. These outwardly 'anguished' protest-fights by many a local Sikh group include, apart from the routine road shows, a number of paid-by-others 'taxing' trips to foreign lands also. Mercifully none objects to the wearing of safety helmets, in place of turbans, by the Sikh fighter pilots of Indian Air Force.

Unfortunately, some of the recent Sikh-religious protests, which are aimed against the 'dera' culture, because of blatant political interferences, have started taking violent shapes in this region. A really disturbing trend indeed that could push Punjab into quagmire of violence that only recently ended.

Sadly enough, no proactive Sikh religious organisation, local or foreign based, seems to have ever bothered to find reasons that have lead to the abrogation of the traditional turbaned/bearded Sikh-look by a large majority of the Sikhs; youngsters in particular. This unfortunate trend has now penetrated into the Sikh psyche so intensely that today a large number of Sikh girls show their unconcealed preference for 'cut-surds' as their life partners. Innumerable matrimonial ads in the media, emphasising this inclination, sufficiently confirms this fervour.

This fast shrinking Sikh base should, in fact, have been the real cause of worry.

It seems no one's concern to find causes that have lead to the regular mass drift of Sikhs, mostly from the lower social strata,(a distinction that the fundamental doctrine of Sikhism refuses to accept; rather the caste based categorisations are considered offensive), towards comparatively 'newer' and controversial faiths/'deras', and even the putting up of separate caste based gurudwaras.

During more than two-hundred-year long era of living Sikh Gurus, from Guru Nanak (1469 AD - 1539 AD) to Guru Gobind Singh (1666 AD - 1708 AD), only two major, modifications were introduced into Sikhism. Both were necessitated by the changing times and these altered socio-political landscape of Punjab.
The first significant change was pioneered about a century after the birth of Sikhism, by Guru Hargobind, the Sixth Sikh Guru, who added a royal element to Sikhism by adopting a dual role of a saint and a warrior. Another century later the second and the most significant transformation was introduced by Guru Gobind Singh, the tenth and the last living Sikh Guru. He gave Sikhism not only an exclusive warrior like identity but also discontinued the tradition of having living Gurus. It too was timely and wisely considered.

A well intended 'masand' system was started by Guru Ram Das, the fourth Sikh Guru, to raise funds for the construction of the holy tanks in Amritsar. Though initially the system played a successful role in preaching and organising early Sikhism it got corrupted with the passage of time. So Guru Gobind Singh had to put an end to this system.

More than three centuries have passed by since that last major change in Sikhism. However no upward modification, to suit the changed socio political situation, has been introduced into this religion during this rather longish period. Rather the corrupted 'masand' system seems to have returned to the fold.

A majority of people are getting disillusioned not with the mainstream Sikhism as they find no mitigation of the social, cultural and economic problems. The fast rise of many a sub sect within Sikhism, including the emergence of controversial 'Dera' culture and caste-based exclusive 'Gurdwaras', sufficiently substantiates the clogged approach that various managers of the Sikh affairs have been adopting for long.

So it becomes imperative to have a serious re-look at the current functioning of Sikh-affairs, both at the religious and socio-political level, which seemingly is mired in petty politics and outdated customs.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24038-dera-culture.html

Lead purely by the then popular Bhakti movement Sikhism began as a rationalist revolt against all the prevalent orthodox religious-beliefs that had grown into fraudulent practices and were cause of immense pain to the people. Dr Gokal Chand Narang described this situation as following;" The spring of religion had been chocked up by weeds of unmeaning ceremonials, debasing superstitions, the selfishness of the priests, and the indifference of people. Form had supplanted the reality and the highly spiritual character of the Hinduism had been buried under the ostentatious paraphernalia of sects".

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24038

Guru Nanak acutely ridiculed these entire practices trough his 'Bani' (his poetic religious renditions that comprise a major part of the Adi Granth). Despite such a straightforward attack by the first Sikh Guru on both Hindu and Muslim religious rites and traditions that he considered meaningless and unworthy of continuation, the Guru's followers did not drift away from their basic ethnic characters. They continued to be the integral parts of their original cultural identities. Sikhism even after the installation of Guru Granth Sahib as the perpetual Guru of the Sikhs has gone through innumerable upheavals and conflicts.

Sikhism is passing through a relatively stable socio-political phase that is laced by an extensive democratic freedom and a global awareness; it can afford to have a close re-look. It needs to meet the current socio-political scenario in a harmonious way and check the present degradation. Sikhism needs to be re-examined, rather right away.

Narayanjot Kaur · #3 (**permalink**) 14-Feb-2009, 23:15 PM

Soul_Jyot ji

Thanks and thanks and thanks and thanks for your astute question at the top of this article.

Randip Singh · #4 (**permalink**) 15-Feb-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaswinder Singh Rekhi

Most of the sikhs in punjab are following the various ders in Punjab.All the deras are being run by the so called Sants (Thugs) who consider themselves as God's superior messangers.They are ruining the sikh community to the extent of finishing within next ten years

My take on this is, the top reasons for this are:

1) Caste - we are hung up on this.
2) No room for Sehajdhari/Mona Sikh - we need to accept this happens
3) Diet - meat/vege debate. To hung up on this. Let people make their own mind up.
4) Women treated like second class. Not enough women running SGPC.
5) Longest beard counts more than spirtuality. We are so fixed with appearance of a Sikh rather than those actually who are acting like Sikhs
6) Ultra right wing sects - like AKJ, DDT, GNSSJ etc put many Sikhs right off.
7) Crappy leadership centrally. Need I say more

pk70 · #5 (**permalink**) 15-Feb-2009, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randip singh

My take on this is, the top reasons for this are:

1) Caste - we are hung up on this.
2) No room for Sehajdhari/Mona Sikh - we need to accept this happens
3) Diet - meat/vege debate. To hung up on this. Let people make their own mind up.
4) Women treated like second class. Not enough women running SGPC.
5) Logest beard counts more than spirtuality. We are so fixed with appearance of a Sikh rather than those actually who are acting like Sikhs
6) Untra right wing sects - like AKJ, DDT, GNSSJ etc put many Sikhs right off.
7) Crappy leadership centrally. Need I say more

I couldn't have put better than this in so nut shell, I wish SGPC leaders could read it to wake from from the slumber to negate Dera influences. thanks

kds1980 · #6 (**permalink**) 15-Feb-2009, 11:28 AM

The culture of Sants, Dera's and baba's are not only in Punjab but in the entire India.One of the main reason is people want instant cure from their worldly problems Like financial problems,Health etc Which these baba's promises to cure.

Jaswinder Singh Rekhi · #7 (**permalink**) 16-Feb-2009, 20:01 PM

We were not united.we are not united,butwe canr be united.Jat think they are superior.Ramgarhias,Khatris,Kambojs & Labhanas have their own seperate gurudwaras.Even the sikhs baptised by Guru Gobind Singh himself ( Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and Baba Binod Singh) fought against each other. How we can remain united today?Deras are devouring our religion like vultures.Don't depend on SGPC or DGPC,they have their own nefarious schemes and motives .

das · #8 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2009, 12:08 PM

Yes , All that glitters is not gold
But Gold does glitter
It's hard to find true saints in kalyug
But they do exist
So never weigh all using the same scale

In Guru Arjan Dev Ji's prayer Sri Sukhmani Sahib, Guru Ji writes about the virtues of the company of Sadhus and Sants and to the tormentors of Sadhu Sants. Would Guru Sahib Ji have devoted whole sections to Sadhu Sants if they were not held is such high esteem ?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24038

Ashtapadee From Sri Sukhmani Sahib

sant kai dookhan aarjaa ghatai.
Slandering (tormenting) the Saints, one's life is cut short.
sant kai dookhan jam tay nahee chhutai.
Slandering the Saints, one shall not escape the Messenger of Death.
sant kai dookhan sukh sabh jaa-ay.
Slandering the Saints, all happiness vanishes.
sant kai dookhan narak meh paa-ay.
Slandering the Saints, one falls into hell.
sant kai dookhan mat ho-ay maleen.
Slandering the Saints, the intellect is polluted.
sant kai dookhan sobhaa tay heen.
Slandering the Saints, one's reputation is lost.
sant kay hatay ka-o rakhai na ko-ay.
One who is cursed by a Saint cannot be saved.
sant kai dookhan thaan bharsat ho-ay.
Slandering the Saints, one's place is defiled.
sant kirpaal kirpaa jay karai.
But if the Compassionate Saint shows His Kindness,
naanak satsang nindak bhee tarai. ||1||
O Nanak, in the Company of the Saints, the slanderer may still be saved. ||1||
sant kay dookhan tay mukh bhavai.
Slandering the Saints, one becomes a wry-faced malcontent.
santan kai dookhan kaag ji-o lavai.
Slandering the Saints, one croaks like a raven.
santan kai dookhan sarap jon paa-ay.
Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a snake.
sant kai dookhan tarigad jon kirmaa-ay.
Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a wiggling worm.
santan kai dookhan tarisnaa meh jalai.
Slandering the Saints, one burns in the fire of desire.
sant kai dookhan sabh ko chhalai.
Slandering the Saints, one tries to deceive everyone.
sant kai dookhan tayj sabh jaa-ay.
Slandering the Saints, all one's influence vanishes.
sant kai dookhan neech neechaa-ay.
Slandering the Saints, one becomes the lowest of the low.
sant dokhee kaa thaa-o ko naahi.
For the slanderer of the Saint, there is no place of rest.
Page 280
naanak sant bhaavai taa o-ay bhee gat paahi. ||2||
O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, even then, he may be saved. ||2||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24038
sant kaa nindak mahaa attaa-ee.
The slanderer of the Saint is the worst evil-doer.
sant kaa nindak khin tikan na paa-ee.
The slanderer of the Saint has not even a moment's rest.
sant kaa nindak mahaa hati-aaraa.
The slanderer of the Saint is a brutal butcher.
sant kaa nindak parmaysur maaraa.
The slanderer of the Saint is cursed by the Transcendent Lord.
sant kaa nindak raaj tay heen.
The slanderer of the Saint has no kingdom.
sant kaa nindak dukhee-aa ar deen.
The slanderer of the Saint becomes miserable and poor.
sant kay nindak ka-o sarab rog.
The slanderer of the Saint contracts all diseases.
sant kay nindak ka-o sadaa bijog.
The slanderer of the Saint is forever separated.
sant kee nindaa dokh meh dokh.
To slander a Saint is the worst sin of sins.
naanak sant bhaavai taa us kaa bhee ho-ay mokh. ||3||
O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even this one may be liberated. ||3||
sant kaa dokhee sadaa apvit.
The slanderer of the Saint is forever impure.
sant kaa dokhee kisai kaa nahee mit.
The slanderer of the Saint is nobody's friend.
sant kay dokhee ka-o daan laagai.
The slanderer of the Saint shall be punished.
sant kay dokhee ka-o sabh ti-aagai.
The slanderer of the Saint is abandoned by all.
sant kaa dokhee mahaa ahaNkaaree.
The slanderer of the Saint is totally egocentric.
sant kaa dokhee sadaa bikaaree.
The slanderer of the Saint is forever corrupt.
sant kaa dokhee janmai marai.
The slanderer of the Saint must endure birth and death.
sant kee dookhnaa sukh tay tarai.
The slanderer of the Saint is devoid of peace.
sant kay dokhee ka-o naahee thaa-o.
The slanderer of the Saint has no place of rest.
naanak sant bhaavai taa la-ay milaa-ay. ||4||
O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even such a one may merge in union. ||4||
sant kaa dokhee aDh beech tay tootai.
The slanderer of the Saint breaks down mid-way.
sant kaa dokhee kitai kaaj na pahoochai.
The slanderer of the Saint cannot accomplish his tasks.
sant kay dokhee ka-o udi-aan bharmaa-ee-ai.
The slanderer of the Saint wanders in the wilderness.
sant kaa dokhee ujharh paa-ee-ai.
The slanderer of the Saint is misled into desolation.
sant kaa dokhee antar tay thothaa.
The slanderer of the Saint is empty inside,
ji-o saas binaa mirtak kee lothaa.
like the corpse of a dead man, without the breath of life.
sant kay dokhee kee jarh kichh naahi.
The slanderer of the Saint has no heritage at all.
aapan beej aapay hee khaahi.
He himself must eat what he has planted.
sant kay dokhee ka-o avar na raakhanhaar.
The slanderer of the Saint cannot be saved by anyone else.
naanak sant bhaavai taa la-ay ubaar. ||5||
O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even he may be saved. ||5||
sant kaa dokhee i-o billaa-ay.
The slanderer of the Saint bewails like this
ji-o jal bihoon machhulee tarhafrhaa-ay.
- like a fish, out of water, writhing in agony.
sant kaa dokhee bhookhaa nahee raajai.
The slanderer of the Saint is hungry and is never satisfied,
ji-o paavak eeDhan nahee Dharaapai.
as fire is not satisfied by fuel.
sant kaa dokhee chhutai ikaylaa.
The slanderer of the Saint is left all alone,
ji-o boo-aarh til khayt maahi duhaylaa.
like the miserable barren sesame stalk abandoned in the field.
sant kaa dokhee Dharam tay rahat.
The slanderer of the Saint is devoid of faith.
sant kaa dokhee sad mithi-aa kahat.
The slanderer of the Saint constantly lies.
kirat nindak kaa Dhur hee pa-i-aa.
The fate of the slanderer is pre-ordained from the very beginning of time.
naanak jo tis bhaavai so-ee thi-aa. ||6||
O Nanak, whatever pleases God's Will comes to pass. ||6||
sant kaa dokhee bigarh roop ho-ay jaa-ay.
The slanderer of the Saint becomes deformed.
sant kay dokhee ka-o dargeh milai sajaa-ay.
The slanderer of the Saint receives his punishment in the Court of the Lord.
sant kaa dokhee sadaa sahkaa-ee-ai.
The slanderer of the Saint is eternally in limbo.
sant kaa dokhee na marai na jeevaa-ee-ai.
He does not die, but he does not live either.
sant kay dokhee kee pujai na aasaa.
The hopes of the slanderer of the Saint are not fulfilled.
sant kaa dokhee uth chalai niraasaa.
The slanderer of the Saint departs disappointed.
sant kai dokh na taristai ko-ay.
Slandering the Saint, no one attains satisfaction.
jaisaa bhaavai taisaa ko-ee ho-ay.
As it pleases the Lord, so do people become;
pa-i-aa kirat na maytai ko-ay.
no one can erase their past actions.
naanak jaanai sachaa so-ay. ||7||
O Nanak, the True Lord alone knows all. ||7||
sabh ghat tis kay oh karnaihaar.
All hearts are His; He is the Creator.
sadaa sadaa tis ka-o namaskaar.
Forever and ever, I bow to Him in reverence.
parabh kee ustat karahu din raat.
Praise God, day and night.
tiseh Dhi-aavahu saas giraas.
Meditate on Him with every breath and morsel of food.
sabh kachh vartai tis kaa kee-aa.
Everything happens as He wills.
jaisaa karay taisaa ko thee-aa.
As He wills, so people become.
apnaa khayl aap karnaihaar.
He Himself is the play, and He Himself is the actor.
doosar ka-un kahai beechaar.
Who else can speak or deliberate upon this?

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #9 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2009, 13:03 PM

The "SANT" in the above ashtpadee is WAHEGURU. Only HE can "merge" those He wants with HIMSELF..and Only His "qualities" are described herein.
Meaning of "sant" as a human being is taken on the same note whereby some take the MOHAN shabds..Mohan tere ucheeh mandir...to be a Person called Mohan son of Guru Amar Dass ji. MOHAN in those shabads is WAHEGURU....and NOT the human being called Mohan.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24038
Gurbani is not so simplistic...i am surprised at the superficial take accepted. GURU JI went all over the known WORLD....and yet the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is ALL about WAHEGURU and WAHEGURU ALONE. Bhagat kabir Ji si more down to earth and BLUNT..when He declares..RAHIO SANT ME TOLL>>SAADH Bhautereh ditthey...I went looking for "SANT"..all i met were mere saadhs ( exteriorly holy men ) I saw a lot of THUGGHS and in BENARAS..the HOLIEST of all HOLIES cities where the entire population is of "holy Men" !!!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24038
Anyway all those hanging around the "deras" of these so called Sants are NOT looking for any GURBANI EXPOSITIONS....most of them simply want....sons...good jobs...wives...plane ticket and visa to the West....a lottery...and they think the sant can give them all this with a stroke of his magic wand. This is why these sants and deras seldom do GURBANI KIRTAN or GURBANI KATHA.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Jio.