Sikhi's Root in the Eternal Shabad-Guru

naingwin1976 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-Feb-2009, 01:32 AM

Dear lotus lion,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/23945-sikhis-root-in-eternal-shabad-guru.html

this is my first post in this topic. Can i discuss by proving that

It is the only 'Scripture' in the world that is still in its original unaltered form for over 500 years and is made up of the writings of the very Gurus and is completely authenticated by the Gurus. No other religion can make this claim.

I didn't i greed that at all. Especially high light one. coz over 1450 years passed already Koran is unique and unaltered since it's written and itself already claimed and challenge nobody can able to alter or writ similar one. Are you agreed that?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23945
I got evidence.

thank
naingwin1976

naingwin1976 · #11 (**permalink**) 02-Feb-2009, 21:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotus lion

3) Difference in Philosophy

Where Sikhi and Islam differ quite fundamentally is on the basic kernels of philosophy.

For Me, The core Philosophy of Sikhi can be described by the following points:

1) There is 1 God for all known by many names worshipped in many ways.

2) Upon a physical death the Soul is reincarnated into another life form.

3) The differences in people's lives, be they rich or poor, Black or White, Fully abled Disabled and so forth is not by random chance, but by Karma which we are all heirs of and are effected by the way that we live.

Islam on the other hand can be described by the following:

1) God Has a set number of Names and there is a prescribed way of connecting with it via the prostration alone. Any other way is incorrect.

2) 'Good' Muslims are destined for an eternal heavenly afterlife based on the way that an individual has lived one life here on Earth, whilst Non-Muslims irrespective of their conduct, even if it was better then the good Muslim, is automatically destined for an eternal fiery Hell.

3) As far as I am aware, Islam does not explain why there is such a wide variety in the conditions in people's lives. I.e. No Karma (on a Side note I would like to find out what Islam says about this.)

If the pure fundamentals are this far apart, then it can quite clearly be seen that Sikhi and Islam are their own Dharmas.

Thanks,

Lotus

Dear Lotus lion Ji,
i will discuss from here and not to offends other i'll use Allah as lord of universes which is revealed in Surah Fahtihah the opening in first chapter of first page of Koran. ,

3) Difference in Philosophy

Where Sikhi and Islam differ quite fundamentally is on the basic kernels of philosophy.

For Me, The core Philosophy of Sikhi can be described by the following points:
Source:: Sikhism Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sik...html#post93133

1) There is 1 God for all known by many names worshipped in many ways.

In Islam only one Lord of universes and he had a lot of name. 99 names are reveal in Koran to call him. but there are a lot names that Human can't understand like universes. Lord asked human to worship in different way to differentiate follower different prophets( how were chosen to came upon earth by will of lord of universes to preach, to teach ways of life,to give good news and to warn. Rules and laws are also different from each other to ease burden of humans who can do only a little time by time. That already teach in Koran 1500 years ago. There are surprises about this and due to it's only ages one.
Lord of universes is always updated the Rules and Laws for humans by sending prophets times to times, epochs to epochs, nations to nations even to very remote African jungles peoples until last times to close all teaching complete. And then in Koran Lord of universes warn to humans that in the days of judgment he'll not accepted any complaint from humans that no prophets were send to them for teaching,warning and giving news.
****All prophets who came upon earth gave news of last and seal of prophets and even gave his name in different languages.**** I'll discuss you in other posts.

2) Upon a physical death the Soul is reincarnated into another life form.

This one is view of Hindus and Buddhist, earlier times of their religious teaching and still disputes about who hold this views first mostly in south east asian Buddhist country.

Theoretically and philosophically more over mathematically we can prove wrong.
I can explain in this way, in universe all religions excepted Islam hold the view of single universe( never mentioned in other religious about a lot universes in spaces (Islam mentions 10800 universes in which other kinds of creature live)
let say in one universe including unseen live forms live together how they incarnated to each other. Mathematically you can calculated by yourself.
In known worlds, today in livestock farms
1. millions of chickens/cows/pigs/fish ect.. are breeding and killings.
2. millions of insets like bugs/ants/mosquitoes/fly/flees/ ect,.. are born and dead.
3. millions of peoples are born and dead ( even in china a lone populations 100times higher then 100 years ago)
4. as per Darwin theories (even i didn't accepted this can calculated a few ) known worlds starting point there only a few species exited than today. How came a lot of species (like fishes, mammals,insects, humans) are formed by incarnation.
This will explain you a few points.

3) The differences in people's lives, be they rich or poor, Black or White, Fully abled Disabled and so forth is not by random chance, but by Karma which we are all heirs of and are effected by the way that we live.

In Islam it's already explained well then incarnation theories in other religions(which is only philosophy can't apply

In live philosophy work only a few, because of we can live only one for sure if one is enough. are you agree that?

General ways your explanations seen goods but forget a lots of point to consider.
1. There is always a starting point to make things happen. When all life starts who choose Karmas ? from where? who set the rules?

let me explain a few,

A tiger eat a deer it's not a sin because Lord of universes created the tiger with teeth that only can chew meats if we have to blame tiger for eating meats first we have to blames Lord of universes who created tiger with that teeth.
But Lord of universes never give winds because that is dengerous for other live and also give deer to more higher speed of running than tiger, also teach tiger to how to hunt. There is struggle of life start.
Don't you see some disable persons are more nice than able persons. poor persons pray more than rich persons. why ?they knew what is life by that way.
learn from history,for example Lord of universes gave to us is that Lord of universes make Hitler of German to poor at start of life but later with his effort to struggle in life Lord of universes gave what he already promise ( that is what you will try in this life i'll give you all that in this life). What happend later? Killed a lot of peoples.
Are all peoples are sinner as per Karma? So there will be no more innocent in this worlds. So we can kill a peoples by referring Karma? no way. especially in court of intelligence it's not valid at all.
So why holding unprovable philosophy as a good point to explaint? it's not make me sense at all.

Islam on the other hand can be described by the following:

1) God Has a set number of Names and there is a prescribed way of connecting with it via the prostration alone. Any other way is incorrect.
Already explained see above

More point is "how we can choose who is really a prophet ?"
It's easy what evidence he brings we can judge a people by only seeing.
Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) of Islam shown Koran as evidence of prophet.
We can discuss how Koran reveal truth( by Sciencetifically )

2) 'Good' Muslims are destined for an eternal heavenly afterlife based on the way that an individual has lived one life here on Earth, whilst Non-Muslims irrespective of their conduct, even if it was better then the good Muslim, is automatically destined for an eternal fiery Hell.
Because can you bear what a good muslim bear in this worlds?
First accepted Lord of universes without seeing and all revealation and his prophet. Submission to Lord of universes without denial even againt own wills and free choice.
Afew undesireable things againts own wills (festings,prayer by times,annual alms for poor, using money to sacrified animal (to get only for acknowlegdement of Lord of universes but all meats go to poor).
Non-muslim problams is that
1. denial of last massages
2. Comparing Great Of Great Lord of universes with stoney images,picture, idols,humans and animal gods. Even a great empire can't stand if somebody
comapre him with a loser.
What if somebody compared creator universes and all things with his own creature?

3.Donating more than muslim mean to written on wall and walking infront of peoples. you can see in news. alms for poor who give? when muslims gave anyone know? Bible for foods, robs for foods.muslim intended only for Lord of the universes. And Lord of the universes warned to humans of this kinds that "you intended all to things to your idols and gods you have to ask what you want from them"
Fair enough right?
Give to one and want from other, who teach that anyway it's trying to taking all free by philosophy, that will not work before Lord of the universes. Lord of the universes is not fool.

3) As far as I am aware, Islam does not explain why there is such a wide variety in the conditions in people's lives. I.e. No Karma (on a Side note I would like to find out what Islam says about this.)

I explained already referred that if need more, i can give you more.
Like racing track you can see some one is before you, someone is behind you but all are same in measurement. look a round you some time. rich or poor, disable or able , wise or unwise is no problam. problams is what you choose the ways.

If the pure fundamentals are this far apart, then it can quite clearly be seen that Sikhi and Islam are their own Dharmas.

May be but about Lord of the universes, Sikh and Islam are quite clear same only practices are different i don't know why?
For examples if you write one of your Lord names among names , i can prove that is already in Islam. Coincidence or consequence not sure? Now i'm reading my G-father formar religious books(my Gfather was a sikh name Gupta Sign)

Bye for now brother, i'll post later time

naingwin1976

Narayanjot Kaur · #12 (**permalink**) 02-Feb-2009, 21:55 PM

Moderator question...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23945
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23945

The thread began as an analysis of Sikhism (primary focus) with the idea of taking a look at how concepts of Sikhism are distinct and different from other paths. The thread is now looking a bit like a comparative religion thread. Any thoughts from thread posters about moving it to Interfaith Dialogs. I don't want to do this until you give some feedback, especially lotus_lion ji who started the thread. My impression was that lotus_lion ji started the thread in order to move out of an interfaith discussion. But now we are back to comparative religion. Let me know. Thanks

naingwin1976 · #13 (**permalink**) 02-Feb-2009, 22:10 PM

Dear
It's ok for me, if lotus- lion ji is ok

Quote:

Originally Posted by aad0002

Moderator question...

The thread began as an analysis of Sikhism (primary focus) with the idea of taking a look at how concepts of Sikhism are distinct and different from other paths. The thread is now looking a bit like a comparative religion thread. Any thoughts from thread posters about moving it to Interfaith Dialogs. I don't want to do this until you give some feedback, especially lotus_lion ji who started the thread. My impression was that lotus_lion ji started the thread in order to move out of an interfaith discussion. But now we are back to comparative religion. Let me know. Thanks

Tejwant Singh · #14 (**permalink**) 02-Feb-2009, 22:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naingwin1976

Dear lotus lion,

this is my first post in this topic. Can i discuss by proving that

It is the only 'Scripture' in the world that is still in its original unaltered form for over 500 years and is made up of the writings of the very Gurus and is completely authenticated by the Gurus. No other religion can make this claim.

I didn't i greed that at all. Especially high light one. coz over 1450 years passed already Koran is unique and unaltered since it's written and itself already claimed and challenge nobody can able to alter or writ similar one. Are you agreed that?
I got evidence.

thank
naingwin1976

Aad is right about this thread starting as Sikhi and its unique concepts to whose shirt is starched more.

Naigwin what Lotus Lion meant by the above is that we know who wrote the Gurbani in Guru Granth Sahib and when, and the way it is complied in a scientific method that it can not be altered or nothing can be inserted inbetween.

On the other hand as far Koran is concerned, it was not written by Mohammed because he was an illitrate and it was written many years after his death. The same goes for the New Testament which was written many years after Jesus'death.

Hence, you may be thinking of the proof that it has not been altered after it was put together but who put it together was NOT Mohammed so lots of things can be considered as hearsays as in the NT.

Tejwant Singh

lotus lion · #15 (**permalink**) 03-Feb-2009, 19:03 PM

Hi naingwin1976,

The objective of this thread was to show that Sikhi has not derived its teachings from another but is linked to the Eternal Shabad.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23945

In its essence, Sikhi is the re-expression of the timeless Shabad in its original form and this was shown through a set of arguements.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23945

To the best of my knowledge, and i have had to read it a few times to be try and make sense of it to be perfectly honest, what you are trying to say is:

1) You believe that the Quran is the actual unaltered word of God
2) You do not agree with Karma
3) Nor in Reincarnation
4) You believe that the final Prophet was Mohammed.
5) You believe that All the Names of God have an Islamic bearing.

I think that i have summerised up what you are trying to say, please do correct me if i am wrong or have missed anything out.

If you feel that the above list is correct, perhaps we can start from point 1, Proving that the Qu'ran is the actual unaltered word of God, and then we take things from there.

Hoping to hear from you soon,

Lotus Lion

lotus lion · #16 (**permalink**) 05-Feb-2009, 16:51 PM

Hi naingwin1976,

I think it is fair to say that i have given you sufficient time.

Hopefully you are working on an answer of some sort?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23945
Even if it is not complete, that is fine, just let me know that you are working on one and how much time you require. I am pretty chilled about these things.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23945

Once you have provided your proof to show that the Quran is the complete actual unaltered word of God, we can begin dialog on this issue, as quite naturally i beg to differ.

Hoping to hear from you soon,

Lotus Lion