Discussions about Projectnaad

Members of the Sikh community are invited to discuss this website if it actually supports Gurmat or not. After reading a few articles which say otherwise, I want the opinion of other viewers to give their opinion on whether Panthic Weekly is making a mountain out of a mole-hill.
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NamJap

ProjectNaad -- is not set up as an organization that is theologically focused. As I understand it Project Naad is disseminating information to Sikhs and non-Sikhs that who might otherwise not have access to information about Sikhism at a fundamental level.

So whether their publications consistent with Gurmat or not is kind of irrelevant. Their puiblications have only slight connection to the "Truth of the Guru." What matters is whether they are publishing information that is factual. Truth is a term with a meaning that varies according to context.

The Panthic Weekly represents an extremely conservative side of Sikhism and some of its views can also be assailed using the same arguments now being lodged against Project Naad.

The Sikh religion does not have a clergy or a hierarchy of individuals who give the stamp of approval based on divine inspiration. There is SGPC of course, which is a committee of ordinary folk who work through a consensus process to determine what practices are consistent with Sikh belief and values. And there are various jathedars. However, these are political appointments not part of a line of succession from the Gurus. So the burden lies on Panthic Weekly, in my humble opinion, to demonstrate that it has the high ground.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/22930-discussions-about-projectnaad.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22930

Hope ProjectNaad stays cool. This has happened to other organizations.

Sorry, but allow me to add.

This is a perfect example of the kind of confusion that is raised up. From the Panthic Weekly article.

The article quotes and interprets as follows. Gurbani says:

ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਪੇਖੈ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ॥
“The eyes should not gaze upon the beauty of another women.”
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22930
(Ang 274)

The Panthic Weekly interprets the verse to mean:

Friendship with the opposite sex is not prohibited. However, to go beyond the lines of innocent friendship would be contrary to Gurmat.

This is not a prohibition against dating. It is a prohibition against lustful thoughts. If you follow the Panthic Weekly line of argument to its ultimate conclusion the only acceptable way to meet a spouse would be an arranged marriage in which both partners do not see each other until the day of the wedding. This does go on, but it is a cultural pattern and has nothing to do with Gurmat. Men and women would be living segregated lives like the ancient Spartans. Blindfolds would be a hot stock. Parents would advertise how unattractive their daughters were in the Matrimonials to get a jump start on the betrothal. Come on!!!!!!

Another quote from the article in Panthic Weekly:

ਦੇਖਿ ਪਰਾਈਆਂ ਚੰਗੀਆਂ ਮਾਵਾਂ ਭੈਣਾਂ ਧੀਆਂ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
"Men should look at the opposite gender as mothers, sisters and daughters, (women should look at the opposite gender as fathers, brothers and sons)."
(Bhâî Gurdâs: Vâr 29/ Paurî 11)

Here is what Panthic Weekly says this vaar means.

There is no if or but about dating or seeing the opposite gender in any other light other than one’s own sister or brother. Intimate relationships at any level are harmful – whether it is physical intimacy or emotional one.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22930

However, a deeper look at the life, history and work of Bhai Gurdas leads one to an entirely different conclusion. Sikhism, in big part because of Bhai Gurdas, is probably one of the few nonsexist faiths. The line is saying something else. It is reinforcing the intrinsic value of women as people and raising them above the status of cattle, property and sex objects that was the rule of the day. And sadly continues in some places even today.

So my vote is to read Panthic Weekly with a block of salt. The writers are human just like you and me. They do not have a lock on Gurmat and often their writing is heavily motivated by political strategy.

Looking forward to exposure of SPN by PW soon. Free publicity!! Just kidding.

Aman Ji......a caution..if i may...dont wish wantonly...it may just come true....
I have heard many comments like..SPN....full of....Neo-this and Neo that...on other Forums.....it pays to remain below the radar....because then we can carry on doing the Guru's Work..rather than fencing/playacting...with the likes of PW "investigative" journalists...

2. Just because a lable says..Panthic..Panth Rattan..Gurmat..Gursikh..Sant-Sipahi..etc etc is no guarantee of proper credentials....there are just too many "panthic" and sants sipahis and Panth Rattans...all self created and promoted... I FI..You FI..and we all Wifi..or as my son says..I scream..You scream..we all scream..for ICE CREAM.

SPN is doing really well....well -balanced...well-planned...well-spreadout...well-adminsitred......about the only thing i am not happy about is..its NOT...well-FUNDED !!
Maybe you should think about setting up a Cyber Gurdwara..complete with Cyber Goluck !!!...goodbye to funding problems...

Gyani Jarnail Singh

So my vote is to read Panthic Weekly with a block of salt. The writers are human just like you and me. They do not have a lock on Gurmat and often their writing is heavily motivated by political strategy.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22930

Absolutely true, Gurbani is being used for different kinds of agenda people have by distorting it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22930
All organizations using wonderful words do not attract my attention any more. When my way of life and thinking was hit by the truth expressed in Gurbani, I felt ashamed that being born into Sikh family, how miles away from Gurmat I lived. Then I visited India as a follower of Gurbani. Amridhari people attracted me; I thought, these people have been faithful to Sikhi and I felt very inferior to them. Slowly and slowly that illusion was shattered and reality shined like a star. I saw them in high gravity of anger, I saw them cheating and I saw them lying through teeth. Suddenly I realised, hypocrisy has many facets. Now all what is said in namjap ji's post, sounds very familiar to me and there is no surprise. As ek musfir ajnabi wrote some place, people make small niches and love to live only in those niches, Gurbani, instead of becoming an inspiration, becomes their tool to defend themselves. Just be aware of their arid idiology.

So by dating do you mean a gf-bf relationship/partnership?

IF so, I have to disagree with you, I have gotten to know many people without ever having to do dating with them.

I see dating as being liberal, and there are better and more respectable ways to get to know anyone including the opposite gender. I only see dating as an excuse by people either living in a liberal environment or coming from a liberal background. I do not see how I need to do "dating" to get to know girls, when we are perfectably capable to get to know them without it ?!?

Veer ji,

I was not discussing dating - pro or con. I was discussing misinterpretations of Gurbani -- reading things into the shabad that are not there.

Bhaji,

I was mainly arguing against this: "This does go on, but it is a cultural pattern and has nothing to do with Gurmat. Men and women would be living segregated lives like the ancient Spartans. Blindfolds would be a hot stock. Parents would advertise how unattractive their daughters were in the Matrimonials to get a jump start on the betrothal. Come on!!!!!! "

But now I see you were explaining this :
"If you follow the Panthic Weekly line of argument to its ultimate conclusion the only acceptable way to meet a spouse would be an arranged marriage in which both partners do not see each other until the day of the wedding."
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22930

So nevermind

Interestingly, the translation on another site,
Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib
is given by:

ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਪੇਖੈ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22930
पर त्रिअ रूपु न पेखै नेत्र ॥
Par ṯari▫a rūp na pekẖai neṯar.
whose eyes do not gaze upon the beauty of others' wives,

My multilingual skills do not realy surpass punjabi, but I am getting a rough idea of the meaning.
I know in punjabi terms for men such as admi can also be used for husband. So could this shabad be talking about a wife in the same context for a woman?
And what does ਪਰ mean in this shabad, does it mean but/however or it has some other meaning?

ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਪੇਖੈ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ॥
पर त्रिअ रूपु न पेखै नेत्र ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22930
Par ṯari▫a rūp na pekẖai neṯar.
whose eyes do not gaze upon the beauty of others' wives,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22930

Yes Lion_Prince ji,

The problem for me is this. The shabad is cautioning against looking at, focusing on, paying attention to the wrong things about other people. "Gaze" means more than to notice a person's beauty. "Gaze" means to look for a period of time. Gaze upon the beauty.... So, why steady your attention on physical beauty instead of other qualities of a person, the shabad asks?

In dating one can either stay focused on physical beauty, or a person can focus on other qualities like spirituality. If one never dates, but meets people in other ways, one may still stay focused on physical beauty instead of other qualities like spirituality. So why ban dating? That is the part of the Panthic Weekly argument that is preposterous to me. It teaches puts emphasize on something like dating that in the end doesn't really make a difference. What makes a difference? Getting one's priorities straight.