Sign Up |  Live StatsLive Stats    Articles 35,351| Comments 159,838| Members 17,822, Newest sakinazahraa| Online 259
Home Contact
 (Forgotten?): 
    Sikhism

   
                                                                     Your Banner Here!    

Gurmat and Freewill

Our Donation Goal : Why Donate? : Donate Today! : Donate Anonymously (ਗੁਪਤ) : Our Family of Supporters
Goal this month: 400 USD, Received: 35 USD (9%)
Please Donate...
Related Topics...
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Karma, Freewill & Hukam in Sikhism Soul_jyot Sikh Sikhi Sikhism 48 21-Dec-2011 17:27 PM
Gurmat Sangeet Network - Gurmat Sangeet Video Archive Gurmat Sangeet Network Gurmat Sangeet 36 07-Sep-2010 00:47 AM
FreeWill as Per Gurbani Navdeep88 Sikh Sikhi Sikhism 30 09-Mar-2010 16:45 PM
Sidhant of Gurmat: Deep Vichaar on Gurmat Marg sunsingh Gurmat Vichaar 0 03-Aug-2008 22:25 PM
Karma and Freewill Neutral Singh Sikh Sikhi Sikhism 0 02-Nov-2004 22:09 PM


Tags
gurmat, freewill
Reply Post New Topic In This Forum Stay Connected to Sikhism, Click Here to Register Now!
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-Mar-2005, 08:34 AM
Neutral Singh's Avatar Neutral Singh Neutral Singh is offline
 
Enrolled: Jun 1st, 2004
Age: 33
Posts: 3,019
Neutral Singh is on a distinguished roadNeutral Singh is on a distinguished road
   
Liked 58 Times in 31 Posts
   
Question Gurmat and Freewill

  Donate Today!   Email to Friend  Tell a Friend   Show Printable Version  Print   Contact sikhphilosophy.net Administraion for any Suggestions, Ideas, Feedback.  Feedback  

Register to Remove Advertisements
hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ]
Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.

We cannot escape God's Will.

Awpy bIij Awpy hI Kwhu ]
You shall harvest what you plant.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/2190-gurmat-and-freewill.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190

Our actions determine our future.

Contradiction? No.

We have free will up to an extent. Once we accept that there are things beyond our control, then everything, no matter how good or bad, is great.

There was once a farmer. He planted his seeds in his fields. Yes it was his will that he planted those seeds, but there were some things out of his control. When there was a drought, he could not control it. When there was a swarm of locusts, he could not control it.

There is a balance between our will and that of Vaheguru's.

Many think that everything, no matter what, is out of our control.



 
Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh!
Reply With Quote
The following member appreciates Neutral Singh Ji for the above message.
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-Mar-2005, 21:20 PM
Arvind's Avatar Arvind Arvind is offline
 
Enrolled: Jul 13th, 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 40
Posts: 2,296
Arvind is on a distinguished roadArvind is on a distinguished road
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 152 Times in 73 Posts
    Nationality: Canada
Re: Gurmat and Freewill

Thanks for sharing this
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190

Regards
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-Oct-2005, 01:33 AM
drkhalsa's Avatar drkhalsa drkhalsa is offline
 
Enrolled: Sep 16th, 2004
Age: 31
Posts: 1,345
drkhalsa is an unknown quantity at this point
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 38 Times in 23 Posts
    Nationality: United Nations
Re: Gurmat and Freewill

Dear Khalsa ji

here I would like to share a conversation of one of the enlightened soul about the topic it really helped me understanding this point of free will and it goes well with gurmat
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190

‘Free choice?’ I interrupted in surprise.
‘Indeed, it is only our free choice which creates conflicts in our
lives; and conflicts are responsible for deterioration. By free choice we
begin to build up handicaps and complications which we are forced to
drive out one by one if we are to make our way towards truth.’
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190
‘Then we should despair, according to you, just because we have
been given the faculty of free choice? Would it be better if we were as
the animals, which simply follow their dark fate and do not know what
free will means?’
‘Not at all. Only the unintelligent mind exercises choice in life.
When I talk of intelligence I mean it in its widest sense, I mean that
deep inner intelligence of mind, emotion and will. A truly intelligent
man can have no choice, because his mind can only be aware of what
is true and can thus only choose the path of truth. An intelligent mind
acts and reacts naturally and to its fullest capacity. It identifies itself
spontaneously with the right thing. It simply cannot have any choice.
Only the unintelligent mind has free will.’


Just to make a point clear here that word intelligent used here is not in traditional sense but intelligent is used for elightened sould ( one with god)



Jatinder Singh
Reply With Quote
The following member appreciates drkhalsa Ji for the above message.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-Oct-2005, 15:17 PM
vijaydeep Singh's Avatar vijaydeep Singh vijaydeep Singh is offline
 
Enrolled: Jul 30th, 2004
Location: world
Posts: 1,758
vijaydeep Singh is an unknown quantity at this point
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 76 Times in 56 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Gurmat and Freewill

Gurfateh

Sowing and reaping is under the control or Huqum of God.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190
Free will is the concept of a few protestants only.

Well are we bonded by our Father that we want to be free?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190

Thinmking that we are free to do anything makes us feel that we are rebeling to God.

In fact all this comes to mind by intension of God or will of God.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 24-Oct-2005, 03:56 AM
drkhalsa's Avatar drkhalsa drkhalsa is offline
 
Enrolled: Sep 16th, 2004
Age: 31
Posts: 1,345
drkhalsa is an unknown quantity at this point
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 38 Times in 23 Posts
    Nationality: United Nations
Re: Gurmat and Freewill

Dear Khalsa ji


Here is baeutiful quote from Gurbani which says the same thing as we are disscusing before

AMg 77
ang 77
Page 77
isrIrwgu mhlw 5 ]
s
ireeraag mehulaa 5
Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl:

pihlY phrY rYix kY vxjwirAw imqRw Dir pwieqw audrY mwih ]
peh
ilai pehurai rain kai vunujaariaa mithraa dhar paaeithaa oudhurai maahi
In the first watch of the night, O my merchant friend, the Lord placed your soul in the womb.

dsI mwsI mwnsu kIAw vxjwirAw imqRw kir muhliq krm kmwih ]
dhus
ee maasee maanus keeaa vunujaariaa mithraa kar muhulath kurum kumaahi
In the tenth month, you were made into a human being, O my merchant friend, and you were given your allotted time to perform good deeds.

muhliq kir dInI krm kmwxy jYsw ilKqu Duir pwieAw ]
m
uhulath kar dheenee kurum kumaanae jaisaa likhuth dhur paaeiaa
You were given this time to perform good deeds, according to your pre-ordained destiny.

mwq ipqw BweI suq binqw iqn BIqir pRBU sMjoieAw ]
m
aath pithaa bhaaee suth banithaa thin bheethar prubhoo sunjoeiaa
God placed you with your mother, father, brothers, sons and wife.

krm sukrm krwey Awpy iesu jMqY vis ikCu nwih ]
kurum s
ukurum kuraaeaeaapae eis junthai vas kish naahi
God Himself is the Cause of causes, good and bad-no one has control over these things.

khu nwnk pRwxI pihlY phrY Dir pwieqw audrY mwih ]1]
kuh
u naanuk praanee pehilai pehurai dhar paaeithaa oudhurai maahi
Says Nanak, O mortal, in the first watch of the night, the soul is placed in the womb. ||1||

dUjY phrY rYix kY vxjwirAw imqRw Bir juAwnI lhrI dyie ]
dh
oojai pehurai rain kai vunujaariaa mithraa bhar juaanee lehuree dhaee
In the second watch of the night, O my merchant friend, the fullness of youth rises in you like waves.

burw Blw n pCwxeI vxjwirAw imqRw mnu mqw AhMmyie ]
b
uraa bhulaa n pushaanee vunujaariaa mithraa mun muthaa ahunmaee
You do not distinguish between good and evil, O my merchant friend-your mind is intoxicated with ego.

burw Blw n pCwxY pRwxI AwgY pMQu krwrw ]
b
uraa bhulaa n pushaanai praaneeaagai punth kuraaraa
Mortal beings do not distinguish between good and evil, and the road ahead is treacherous.

pUrw siqguru kbhUM n syivAw isir TwFy jm jMdwrw ]
p
ooraa sathigur kubehoon n saeviaa sir thaatae jum jundhaaraa
They never serve the Perfect True Guru, and the cruel tyrant Death stands over their heads.

Drm rwie jb pkris bvry qb ikAw jbwbu kryie ]
dhurum r
aae jub pukuras buvurae thub kiaa jubaab kuraee
When the Righteous Judge seizes you and interrogates you, O madman, what answer will you give him then?

khu nwnk dUjY phrY pRwxI Bir jobnu lhrI dyie ]2]
kuh
u naanuk dhoojai pehurai praanee bhar jobun lehuree dhaee
Says Nanak, in the second watch of the night, O mortal, the fullness of youth tosses you about like waves in the storm. ||2||

qIjY phrY rYix kY vxjwirAw imqRw ibKu sMcY AMDu AigAwnu ]
th
eejai pehurai rain kai vunujaariaa mithraa bikh sunchai andh agiaan
In the third watch of the night, O my merchant friend, the blind and ignorant person gathers poison.

puiqR kliqR moih lpitAw vxjwirAw imqRw AMqir lhir loBwnu ]
p
uthr kulathr mohi lupattiaa vunujaariaa mithraa anthar lehar lobhaan
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190
He is entangled in emotional attachment to his wife and sons, O my merchant friend, and deep within him, the waves of greed are rising up.

AMqir lhir loBwnu prwnI so pRBu iciq n AwvY ]
anthar lehar l
obhaan puraanee so prubh chith n aavai
The waves of greed are rising up within him, and he does not remember God.

swDsMgiq isau sMgu n kIAw bhu jonI duKu pwvY ]
s
aadhusungath sio sung n keeaa buhu jonee dhukh paavai
He does not join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, and he suffers in terrible pain through countless incarnations.

isrjnhwru ivswirAw suAwmI iek inmK n lgo iDAwnu ]
s
irujunehaar visaariaa suaamee eik nimukh n lugo dhiaan
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190
He has forgotten the Creator, his Lord and Master, and he does not meditate on Him, even for an instant.

khu nwnk pRwxI qIjY phrY ibKu sMcy AMDu AigAwnu ]3]
kuh
u naanuk praanee theejai pehurai bikh sunchae andh agiaan
Says Nanak, in the third watch of the night, the blind and ignorant person gathers poison. ||3||

cauQY phrY rYix kY vxjwirAw imqRw idnu nyVY AwieAw soie ]
cho
uthai pehurai rain kai vunujaariaa mithraa dhin naerraiaaeiaa soe
In the fourth watch of the night, O my merchant friend, that day is drawing near.

gurmuiK nwmu smwil qUM vxjwirAw imqRw qyrw drgh bylI hoie ]
g
urumukh naam sumaal thoon vunujaariaa mithraa thaeraa dhurugeh baelee hoe
As Gurmukh, remember the Naam, O my merchant friend. It shall be your Friend in the Court of the Lord.

gurmuiK nwmu smwil prwxI AMqy hoie sKweI ]
g
urumukh naam sumaal puraanee anthae hoe sukhaaee
As Gurmukh, remember the Naam, O mortal; in the end, it shall be your only companion.

iehu mohu mwieAw qyrY sMig n cwlY JUTI pRIiq lgweI ]
e
ihu mohu maaeiaa thaerai sung n chaalai jhoothee preeth lugaaee
This emotional attachment to Maya shall not go with you; it is false to fall in love with it.

sglI rYix gudrI AMiDAwrI syiv siqguru cwnxu hoie ]
sugul
ee rain gudhuree andhiaaree saev sathigur chaanun hoe
The entire night of your life has passed away in darkness; but by serving the True Guru, the Divine Light shall dawn within.

khu nwnk pRwxI cauQY phrY idnu nyVY AwieAw soie ]4]
kuh
u naanuk praanee chouthai pehurai dhin naerraiaaeiaa soe
Says Nanak, O mortal, in the fourth watch of the night, that day is drawing near! ||4||

iliKAw AwieAw goivMd kw vxjwirAw imqRw auiT cly kmwxw swiQ ]
l
ikhiaaaaeiaa govindh kaa vunujaariaa mithraa outh chulae kumaanaa saath
Receiving the summons from the Lord of the Universe, O my merchant friend, you must arise and depart with the actions you have committed.

iek rqI iblm n dyvnI vxjwirAw imqRw EnI qkVy pwey hwQ ]
e
ik ruthee bilum n dhaevunee vunujaariaa mithraa ounee thukurrae paaeae haath
You are not allowed a moment's delay, O my merchant friend; the Messenger of Death seizes you with firm hands.

iliKAw AwieAw pkiV clwieAw mnmuK sdw duhyly ]
l
ikhiaaaaeiaa pukarr chulaaeiaa munumukh sudhaa dhuhaelae
Receiving the summons, people are seized and dispatched. The self-willed manmukhs are miserable forever.

ijnI pUrw siqguru syivAw sy drgh sdw suhyly ]
j
inee pooraa sathigur saeviaa sae dhurugeh sudhaa suhaelae
But those who serve the Perfect True Guru are forever happy in the Court of the Lord.

krm DrqI srIru jug AMqir jo bovY so Kwiq ]
kurum dhuruth
ee sureer jug anthar jo bovai so khaath
The body is the field of karma in this age; whatever you plant, you shall harvest.

khu nwnk Bgq sohih drvwry mnmuK sdw Bvwiq ]5]1]4]
kuh
u naanuk bhuguth sohehi dhuruvaarae munumukh sudhaa bhuvaath
Says Nanak, the devotees look beautiful in the Court of the Lord; the self-willed manmukhs wander forever in reincarnation. ||5||1||4||



Jatinder Singh

Reply With Quote
The following member appreciates drkhalsa Ji for the above message.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-Nov-2005, 05:30 AM
Occam's Razor's Avatar Occam's Razor Occam's Razor is offline
 
Enrolled: Nov 10th, 2005
Posts: 2
Occam's Razor is an unknown quantity at this point
   
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Nationality: United States
Re: Gurmat and Freewill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutral Singh
When there was a drought, he could not control it. When there was a swarm of locusts, he could not control it.

There is a balance between our will and that of Vaheguru's.

Many think that everything, no matter what, is out of our control.
So if I'm not mistaken ... one must be able to control both the weather and other creatures(locusts) in order to have complete free will?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 13-May-2007, 12:42 PM
hps's Avatar hps hps is offline
 
Enrolled: Apr 23rd, 2007
Posts: 31
hps is an unknown quantity at this point
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Gurmat and Freewill

Dear Sir,
What exactly is this Free will according to Sikh Philosphy as reflected in the scriptures.I would prefer if you limit the answer within the edicts Of Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190
I could not do so myself and hence the request.

Thanks and regards.
hps
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 24-May-2007, 00:25 AM
Tejwant Singh's Avatar Tejwant Singh Tejwant Singh is offline
 
Enrolled: Jun 30th, 2004
Location: Henderson, NV.
Age: 58
Posts: 2,773
Tejwant Singh is just really nice
Tejwant Singh is just really nice
   
Adherent: Sikhi
Liked 3,606 Times in 1,545 Posts
    Nationality: United States
Re: Gurmat and Freewill

As Ik Ong Kaar is omnipotent then no one else has the power to have freewill.

Freewill is a snakeoil slogan concocted by Christanity to sell one more illusion called Hell and Heaven, meaning one goes to either of them by one's own freewill which contradicts their dogma of God being omnipotent.

The Sikhi way of life is not like that. Gurmat values act like catalysts in us.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2190

We are mere channels from which the CREATIVE ENERGY passes through. With a lead pencil we can kill someone or draw like Leonardo da Vinci.It all depends on how we channelise the very same energy.

Hence NOT with freewill but with GURMAT VALUES, we can all become Leonardos.

Tejwant
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 24-May-2007, 01:32 AM
roopsidhu's Avatar roopsidhu roopsidhu is offline
 
Enrolled: Aug 7th, 2006
Age: 50
Posts: 253
roopsidhu is on a distinguished roadroopsidhu is on a distinguished roadroopsidhu is on a distinguished roadroopsidhu is on a distinguished road
   
Liked 305 Times in 153 Posts
    Nationality: Ajman
Re: Gurmat and Freewill

  Donate Today!  
Very Informative And Interesting Discussion
Reply With Quote
   Click Here to Donate Now!

Support Us!
Become a Promoter!
Gurfateh ji, you can become a SPN Promoter by Donating as little as $10 each month. With limited resources & high operational costs, your donations make it possible for us to deliver a quality website and spread the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, to serve & uplift humanity. Every contribution counts. Donate Generously. Gurfateh!
ReplyPost New Topic In This Forum Stay Connected to Sikhism, Click Here to Register Now!

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Tools Search
Search:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

» Gurbani Jukebox
Listen to Gurbani while surfing SPN!
» Active Discussions
sikhism Why is Guru Granth sahib...
Today 11:27 AM
2 Replies, 66 Views
sikhism Who is "Mohan"?
Today 08:48 AM
25 Replies, 462 Views
sikhism need urgent advice.......
Today 08:39 AM
18 Replies, 274 Views
sikhism Sant Siphahi -...
Today 08:35 AM
4 Replies, 66 Views
sikhism Women's rights in Islam
Today 08:26 AM
2 Replies, 28 Views
sikhism Description of the...
By naben
Today 07:01 AM
43 Replies, 790 Views
sikhism Considering Cutting My...
Yesterday 22:18 PM
125 Replies, 4,003 Views
sikhism Sukhmani Sahib Astpadi...
Yesterday 22:13 PM
0 Replies, 35 Views
sikhism Sukhmani Sahib Astpadi...
Yesterday 21:50 PM
0 Replies, 33 Views
sikhism ਸ਼ਹੀਦੀ
Yesterday 19:31 PM
0 Replies, 47 Views
sikhism How important is Matha...
Yesterday 15:22 PM
66 Replies, 1,165 Views
sikhism On a Scale of Most...
Yesterday 13:10 PM
31 Replies, 1,307 Views
sikhism Sikh Diamonds Video...
Yesterday 13:06 PM
7 Replies, 150 Views
sikhism Herman Hesse,...
Yesterday 12:40 PM
14 Replies, 253 Views
sikhism ਨਾਮਾ
Yesterday 06:37 AM
2 Replies, 75 Views
» Books You Should Read...
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT +6.5. The time now is 12:52 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.5.2 Copyright © 2004-12, All Rights Reserved. Sikh Philosophy Network


Page generated in 1.60022 seconds with 29 queries