Is SGGS God?

In my effort to sort out Orthodox from Naamdhari from Nirankare and understand how Sikhi evolved from the message of Guru Nanak to the situation I see in videos where it's hard to tell who is attacking who, I keep running into this statement that certain Sikhs are not really Sikhs because they say that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a book.

And I'm thinking, "But it IS a BOOK." So is that heresy? I mean, when I read and heard that Guru Gobind Singh put an end to the human Guru lineage and named the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the last Guru, I thought that meant that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was the final teacher, what brings one from darkness to light (as that is what I'm told the definition of Guru is). That made sense to me sense our sacred texts are our teachers.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/20882-is-sggs-god.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20882

But now I'm getting the idea that Sikhi (or some groups of Sikhs anyhow) actually believe that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a living entity, the reincarnation of Guru Nanak. And thinking about that I immediately thought of the fact that many Sikhs also believe that Guru Nanak IS God.

So does that mean that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji IS God? Or is it the place we find the inspired word of God and since the knowledge it holds brings one from darkness to light, it can be considered "Guru?" Do you believe that it is actually a divine living entity or do you call it the Guru because it is now the only teacher the Sikhs have?

 
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CarolineJi;
I'll quote this from an excellent book I'm reading "The Sikh Way to God Realization" by Dr. Sureet Kaur, 2004 pub: Bhai Daya Singh Charitable Trust

"Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not considered a mere book or scripture but the visible form of the Guru (in word form). A sikh who follows it's teachings in word, deed and thought is ensured liberation." p. 75
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20882

Also "In sikhism the stress in not on human Guru. ....The physical body of Guru acts as an instrument for expressing the word of God. The human Guru assumes such complete unity with the holy word that there remains no distinction between shabad and Guru. But it does not mean that sikhism believes in incarnation of God in the form of Guru. God does not take birth according to the sikh religion. The union between the Guru and God is only at the spiritual level." p. 75

I think this explains it very well, the author has an M.A. , M. Phil and Ph.D in Religious Studies from Punjabi University, Patiala so this is a very mainstream scholarly work, which is why it's in my university library.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20882
I hope this is helpful!

This answer is so clear and wraps the questions up for me. So I am so thankful to you.

Just as a side note, every now and then I will bring a question form the forum to Gurdwara out of simple curiosity. How do people who have been practicing Sikhs for a lifetime react? granthi, assistant granthi, gurdwara secretary, members who attend, grad students, stray teenager here and there -- who may be just hanging out a bit after services -- And they are very polite, but they roll their eyes. Here she goes again!!!!!

They do not consider Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to be God. But exactly the way expressed above -- the unity is complete with Shabad and God, The Shabad is Guru, The book itself is holy. The book is not God.

If God is the opposite of Dog, then Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is definitely God.
Because a dog needs to be fed, while Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji feeds us.
Because we need to touch the feet of our Master, while a dog touch ours.
Because a dog will bite us if we try to put it to death, whereas Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji remains unharmed even if we were to cremeate old editions.
Because a dog can be silenced but Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji cannot be.
All this is so only because GOD and DOG are seen differently.

(Posted as a member)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20882
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20882

I'm the dog here.

ਕਹਾ ਸੁਆਨ ਕਉ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸੁਨਾਏ ॥
Kahā su­ān ka­o simriṯ sunā­ė.
Why bother to read the Simritees to a dog?
Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

GOD and DOG are seen differently. Very cool.

Yes if one means the actual book. No if one means the message in the book. My opinion only of course.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20882

Aren't we supposed to hear the Shabad within us. So if we are separated from the book, we are never separated from the Shabad.

I think as you spend more time reading on this forum you will see that there are many varied philosophies on many elements of Sikh faith and this is one of them. There are many Sikhs who do believe that the Guru is actually God -- even "mainstream" Sikhs.

Thank you! I will see if I can find some work by that author.

One of the points of confusion is this. What does someone mean when they are saying Guru -- Sri Guru Granth Sahib -- the book -- or Sri Guru Granth Sahib -- the Shabad, with a capital S? I do not think there is as much confusion about the issue as there is about the way language is used.

Namjap, do you know what you get when you cross a dyslexic, and an agnostic, and an insomniac?

A person who lies awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog.



I agree that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji being our Guru (teacher) is to be understood in a more figurative sense in that the word of God is expressed in the written word in a way that we can grasp and understand but that it is actually that message IN those words that is the teacher who brings us from darkness to light.

So my question is, considering that most agree with this definition, why is the fact that Namdhari Sikhs consider the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to be a book with the writings of the Gurus (word of God) used as grounds to exclude them from Sikhism? They also believe in the 10 Gurus, but they believe in subsequent Gurus as well. I watched as many videos on youtube as I could and saw the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji always placed in the same place of honor it is in mainstream Sikh gatherings. Now I know youtube is not exactly an authority (LOL) but it is actual video. It seems to me that the ideas about Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are not what sets them apart as much as their belief in the continued incarnation of gurus and perhaps their politics.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20882
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20882

I will admit that I don't know most of the facts in this situation, and that's why I'm bringing it to the forum. I realize that there is some support from the government but I will tell you that some of them say that is because the Namdhari Sikhs are excluded or discriminated against by mainstream Sikhs and that is why the support -- sort of like programs for minorities here in the states.

So what is the discrepency really? The attitudes about Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji aren't really that different between what I've seen so far with namdhari Sikhs and mainstream Sikhs.

Pardon my ignorance!

The position of the Namdhari goes back to the martyrdom of Sri Gobind Singh in 1708. They do not indeed see Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the Word of God. However, Sri Guru Gobind Singh, as you are aware, declared the 11th Guru to be "Guru Granth Sahib" ending the succession of human gurus. However, there were 2 ( I think) among his followers in the Panth that argued that Gobind Singh's message was not understood properly and claimed a kind of apostolic succession. The Namdhari continue from that time to believe a number of things that are not consistent with Shabad Guru followers. One of these is indeed that Guru takes a human form.