Sigh...

Sometimes it seems like the same struggles between people just keep playing themselves out over and over and over again. I am trying to learn about the times of Guru Nanak and the context of his writings and the birth of Sikhi and I find Muslims chopping of heads of Hindus, Hindus ritually raping young girls and fighting against Muslims, etc.. Then time goes on, passes, battles, Khalsa, battles, wars... then massacres at the Golden Temple, wars, Muslims, Hindus, warring.. Partition, 1984, today in Canada... hate back and forth, trainloads of dead bodies etc etc etc...

Is this just the condition of humanity and destined to remain in chaos? How can millions of people hear Gurujis message, take it to their heart and read it every day and still the situation remains the same? Are we keeping Sikhi too much in the theoretical instead of applying it, or are the forces of chaos and maya just so strong that humanities condition can never change?

Why are we STILL fighting over religion? Guru Nanak lived 500 years ago and brought the message that we all worship the same God, and nowadays millions of people believe that. And yet million/billions more believe in peace and don't embrace a religion at all.

And yet, what? Humans are still chopping off each other heads to prove 'my God is better than your God' Hindustan, Khalistan, Pakistan, Iraq, .... Not to mention the things they do to their own fellow believers -- mutilate children's genitals, preists gang raping little girls in the name of their gods, cutting off people's hands and feet, burying them up to their necks and smashing their skulls with rocks, dropping bombs on whole communities....

What is wrong with us? Really... and if we are the ones who understand that God is one and beyond all this insanity, what can we do to change any of it?

I feel like praying, "Oh my Guru, why doesn't anybody listen?"

Is this just the condition of humanity and the only change we can really make is within our own hearts? Or do we really have hope for an enlightened peaceful world one day.

My other question is, isn't someone going to have to lay down the sword first?

Sorry.

I have to beg all of your forgiveness. I'm on a spirit quest and have reached the part that feels like the first few steps of Spring cleaning when you have dragged everything out of the closets and drawers, pulled down the curtains and thrown them in the wash and everything is in chaos. It gets so much worse before it gets better.



Patience... PLEASE.

Carolineislands ji

I think Harjas is just nudging you a little bit with a smile. Encouragement. Not criticism or anything like that. You can smile. S'OK

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ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ man karehalaa gur govindh samaal O camel-like mind, dwell upon the Guru and the Lord of the Universe.

try to look at it in the context of history, of the culture of india. india used to be many separate kingdoms, constantly struggling against their neighbors for a bit more land or a bit more water. first came mughal invasion and opression. after that there was the greatest time of peace and prosperity in Punjab's history... under a Sikh king. then came british exploitation and oppression. the british practiced divide and rule, playing on the fears, misunderstanding, and long standing fueds between factions of indian society. Winston Chruchill almost single handedly engineered partition (with the help of Mahatma Gandhi's ambivalence) out of spite for loosing india to the indians! i highly recommend reading "Indian Summer" for more details on just how much the british created and encouraged communal tension in india before and during partition. moving forward, Sikhs have been marginalized by the government of india ever since the hindu dominated Congress party started running the country. all of the country's early major political figures have expressed their disgust or dislike of the Sikhs. since partition, Sikh and Punjabi history are filled with insults, attacks, and massacres by the GOI. did you know that in the early 1980's, the GOI declared ALL Amritdhari Sikhs to be a threat to Indian national security? this kind of blatant oppression is why the struggle for Khalistan is necessary.

should someone put down the sword? yes, the Indian Government should. because as long as there is oppression, a Sikh must fight. we may tolerate the insult for a while (Guru Gobind Singh allowed three arrows to be fired at him before he shot back), but if it continues, we must fight back. it's our dharam, our sacred duty. we are to be both saint and warrior.

i read an interview with a Sikh "militant", and when asked what the militants will do when they achieve Khalistan... he said they will liberate Bosnia, Tibet, and anyone else who is being oppressed. it's simply our duty.

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ॥
सलोक कबीर ॥
Salok Kabīr.
Shalok, Kabeer:

ਗਗਨ ਦਮਾਮਾ ਬਾਜਿਓ ਪਰਿਓ ਨੀਸਾਨੈ ਘਾਉ ॥
गगन दमामा बाजिओ परिओ नीसानै घाउ ॥
Gagan ḏamāmā bāji*o pari*o nīsānai gẖā*o.
The battle-drum beats in the sky of the mind; aim is taken, and the wound is inflicted.

ਖੇਤੁ ਜੁ ਮਾਂਡਿਓ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਅਬ ਜੂਝਨ ਕੋ ਦਾਉ ॥੧॥
खेतु जु मांडिओ सूरमा अब जूझन को दाउ ॥१॥
Kẖėṯ jo māʼndi*o sūrmā ab jūjẖan ko ḏā*o. ||1||
The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ||1||

ਸੂਰਾ ਸੋ ਪਹਿਚਾਨੀਐ ਜੁ ਲਰੈ ਦੀਨ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ॥
सूरा सो पहिचानीऐ जु लरै दीन के हेत ॥
Sūrā so pahicẖānī*ai jo larai ḏīn kė hėṯ.
He alone is known as a spiritual hero, who fights in defense of religion.

ਪੁਰਜਾ ਪੁਰਜਾ ਕਟਿ ਮਰੈ ਕਬਹੂ ਨ ਛਾਡੈ ਖੇਤੁ ॥੨॥੨॥
पुरजा पुरजा कटि मरै कबहू न छाडै खेतु ॥२॥२॥
Purjā purjā kat marai kabhū na cẖẖādai kẖėṯ. ||2||2||
He may be cut apart, piece by piece, but he never leaves the field of battle. ||2||2||

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Why do the Hindus want to get rid of the Sikhs? Strategic position of Punjab? How are Sikhs a threat to them, if at all?

I watched a movie called maya day before last and afterwards did some research on some of the practices still being done in Hinduism. Is SICKENING.

I am really ignorant about India politics and history/culture etc. I am an anthropologist but my area of study was Afro-Caribbean cultures and since then I've worked almost solely in Haiti.

So it seems like there have been forces out to destroy Sikhs ever since Guru Gobind Singh first took up the sword?

I wonder why people don't talk more about this?

actually, it started even before that... Guru Arjun Sahib was our first Guru to die for his faith.

there are many reasons, but no good reasons. one is the Hindutva movement, who wish to make India into Hindustan, a purely Hindu country. they HATE christians and muslims, and have been involved in rapes, tortures, murders, and organized riots which killed tens of thousands. they will accept Sikhs only if Sikhs will agree to be considered Hindu. they want to deny us our very identity. they know that if we remain Sikh, if we remain KHALSA, we will not stand by as they "cleanse" India as the Nazis they take their inspiration did in Europe.

another is that Punjab is strategically important, with major rivers, major hydroelectric power plants, and the most fertile land in India. it's called the "bread basket" of India. the indian government re-routes the rivers to other states, stealing water from punjabi farmers and causing drought and famine in punjab. there has been an epidemic of farmer suicides from this practice. punjab produces clean, hydroelectric electricity for four states and new delhi... not a volt of it goes to punjab. instead, punjab is forced to buy COAL from other states to make it's own power. if punjab has any autonomy at all, the indian government fears it will loose all of these resources.

Sikhs were declared a "martial race" by the british, something which has stuck. a disproportionate amount of Sikhs are in the Indian military, and have given their lives for their country since the freedom movement. so the idea that Sikhs want their own identity separate from Hindus is more threatening, because Sikhs are seen as a military threat. they seem to think that if Sikhs have even a small amount of power, we'll take over the country or something.

honestly, i don't think there's any one clear reason Sikhs are so hated. Patel said that Sikhs "disgusted" him. this was a major figure in the freedom movement, a man who is venerated in India. during partition, he forced a disarming of Sikhs in Punjab, leading to even more slaughter by Muslims. why would he do that except to harm Sikhs? he even tried to ban the Kirpan!

watch any indian film and you'll see the Sikh is always portrayed as a bumbling idiot or a villian (think of the stereotypes African Americans and Latinos have struggled with in American film). every hindu, from childhood, is inundated with Sikh jokes, showing Sikhs as idiots. ask any indian hindu if he knows a Sikh joke and you'll see what i mean.
why is this? why is it necessary? why is any group oppressed? usually out of fear.

India is doing to Sikhs what America has done to African Americans since slavery was ended. the difference being that African Americans are safer in the US than Sikhs are in India, where torture and rape at the hands of the police is a common occurance. check any human rights group report on india and it ALWAYS carries an article about the police in Punjab. in America, individuals may oppress Blacks, but at least the government doesn't do it openly...

of course, you won't read about this in most indian newspapers, thanks to the heavy censorship at the hands of the government.

i can recommend some more books to read if you like.

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The hindustva movement has been a very powerful theme in Indian politics since before World War II. I am not saying it is the sole cause, but it preys on many other economic, political and historical points of contention. Hindustva is the Indian version of fascism and uses political rhetoric that is not so different from the America First campaigns of Patrick Buchanon. Advantaged and educated people prey on and manipulate the disparities of wealth and political power -- and scapegoats are part of the script. It is an ugly movement that has driven many non-Sikh Indians out of India. Harjas ji knows a lot about this.

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ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ man karehalaa gur govindh samaal O camel-like mind, dwell upon the Guru and the Lord of the Universe.

Quote:

And yet, what? Humans are still chopping off each other heads to prove 'my God is better than your God' Hindustan, Khalistan, Pakistan, Iraq...

Panji, I hear pain in your heart over these things. Let me tell you a story please.

Once Buddha Ji (and Buddha Ji is a very ahimsa nonviolent person). Once Buddha Ji was in a previous incarnation... before he was the Buddha... and in this incarnation he was on a little boat with people and they got captured and taken hostage by a pirate ship.

On the pirate ship was a very evil pirate who had done a lot of horrible things to innocent people. And Buddha Ji already had powers, so he knew what was in the pirates heart and mind. And he knew what the evil pirate was going to do to all the people. Buddha Ji knew the terrible pain, humiliation and grief he was going to cause them. And that even after they died, the people would be disturbed spiritually, and it would take them a long long time to recover enough to get back to spiritual searching.

And Buddha Ji knew the heart of the evil pirate and how terrible these crimes would be on him too. That it would take eons of suffering incarnations before he could ever get to any spiritual enlightenment.


So Buddha Ji thought to himself, if I do nothing, these terrible actions will happen, and all the terrible karma is going to occur. But if I act... if I sacrifice myself... my actions can stop the suffering.

So Buddha Ji decided it was better that HE take the bad karma of negative actions and kill the evil pirate to prevent him from creating eons of cycles of suffering by his acts.

So Buddha Ji killed the evil pirate. And even in Buddhism it is considered to be an auspicious act of a bodhisattva (selfless service to others).

ਰਣਿ ਰੂਤਉ ਭਾਜੈ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਰਉ ਥਾਰਉ ਨਾਉ ॥੩੪॥
ran rootho bhaajai nehee sooro thhaaro naao ||34||
When you are engaged in the battle, don't run away; then, you shall be known as a spiritual hero. ||34||
~SGGS Ji p. 342

ਜਾ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੇਗ ਵਗਾਵਹਿ ਸਿਰ ਮੁੰਡੀ ਕਟਿ ਜਾਵਹਿ ॥
jaa thudhh bhaavai thaeg vagaavehi sir munddee katt jaavehi ||
When it pleases You, we wield the sword, and cut off the heads of our enemies.
~SGGS Ji p. 145

Panji, the Sikh Dharam was created, not as a nonviolent, pacifistic non-responsiveness to the evil in the world. It is understood that NOT to act in the face of injustice is also an evil. We have a duty, a Dharam, to act, to step in between evil and harm to an innocent person. We are not held liable for an act of kirpa. But if we engage in violence for our own anger, for our own justification, for our own selfish purpose, then we get karam. In the Kalyug, evil is king, and righteousness is persecuted. So expect this and don't lose heart! Stay in Chardhi kala!

ਗਗਨ ਦਮਾਮਾ ਬਾਜਿਓ ਪਰਿਓ ਨੀਸਾਨੈ ਘਾਉ ॥
gagan dhamaamaa baajiou pariou neesaanai ghaao ||
The battle-drum beats in the sky of the mind; aim is taken, and the wound is inflicted.

ਖੇਤੁ ਜੁ ਮਾਂਡਿਓ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਅਬ ਜੂਝਨ ਕੋ ਦਾਉ ॥੧॥
khaeth j maanddiou sooramaa ab joojhan ko dhaao ||1||
The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ||1||

ਸੂਰਾ ਸੋ ਪਹਿਚਾਨੀਐ ਜੁ ਲਰੈ ਦੀਨ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ॥
sooraa so pehichaaneeai j larai dheen kae haeth ||
He alone is known as a spiritual hero, who fights in defense of religion.

ਪੁਰਜਾ ਪੁਰਜਾ ਕਟਿ ਮਰੈ ਕਬਹੂ ਨ ਛਾਡੈ ਖੇਤੁ ॥੨॥੨॥
purajaa purajaa katt marai kabehoo n shhaaddai khaeth ||2||2||
He may be cut apart, piece by piece, but he never leaves the field of battle. ||2||2||
~SGGS Ji p. 1105

Quote:

How can millions of people hear Gurujis message, take it to their heart and read it every day and still the situation remains the same? Are we keeping Sikhi too much in the theoretical instead of applying it, or are the forces of chaos and maya just so strong that humanities condition can never change?...

How could Guruji fight bitter wars to defend the oppressed with some pacifistic ideology? Guruji didn't give to his Khalsa pacifistic ideology. He gave them kirpan! He gave them Bir rass! He gave them the Divine dignity of self-defense.

Realized through the grace of the True Protector;
Copy of the original in the hand of the Tenth Guru.
Blessed am I with the protection of Akal;
Available to me is the defense of Sarbloh (AllSteel)
Blessed am I with the shield of Sarbkal;
Available ever is the protection of Sarbloh.
~Sri Akal Ustat

There is a story, that one day the mughals came and made a terrible attack on the Sikhs killing and wounding. Guruji heard the cries of the women as they were being humiliated. And this is why Guruji gave His Singhnia kirpan! Because He wanted His Sikhs to have the Divine dignity of self-protection. The right to fight back and die with honor. Thats why there is no Sikh who has a weapon but is exempted from using it. What on earth would be the purpose to wear it like a decoration when a war was going on and you were needed? It is the highest Dharam to fight in defense of the helpless!

"Who like him was there ever in the world,
Who sacrificed his head that others might live?"
~Bhai Santokh Singh

Quote:

Not to mention the things they do to their own fellow believers -- mutilate children's genitals, preists gang raping little girls in the name of their gods, cutting off people's hands and feet, burying them up to their necks and smashing their skulls with rocks, dropping bombs on whole communities....

Sikh religion does not do this. Sikh religion has never done this. Sikh religion is the most persecuted religion on the planet. And that's because Sikh religion has the Dharam to stand up to oppressors, and with their lives try to stop them from causing harm. Stand up and be counted! Guruji is the defender of Human Rights!

Quote:

My other question is, isn't someone going to have to lay down the sword first?

Gandhi's ideology sounds very noble. But it has no inherent honesty. If you lay down your sword, you are just disarmed and helpless. You accomplish nothing by your act. You can't help anyone if you can't even protect yourself.


We have no right to harm the innocent. We have positive duty to defend and harm the evildoers if necessary. But it is last resort. Sikhism doesn't turn the other cheek.


When you think of crimes against the helpless, think about how peaceful words and gentle spirit will have not stop the brutality. Disarming yourself and weeping while you watch will never save the world. Inactivity lets evil happen.


Trust in Guruji. He is the Liberator of the evil era. He is strict with evildoers because Vaheguru Ji is Perfect Justice. He is Sarbloh Akal. He is the All-Steel Sword. Khalsa is the Army of God.

Is is true that Sikh women used to wear dastar more than they do now but they started wearing only chunni because Sikh women were getting raped?

Yeah, more books would be great. Especially if I can get them on Amazon.com for less than $20. Just keepin' it real.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of Sikhs when I said the chopping heads and stoning and all that. I just didn't want to start a discussion about who I was talking about because I have such a negative attitude about them.

Off to bed!

Thanks all.