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Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22-Jan-2008, 19:47 PM
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Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

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kir syvw siqgur Apuny kI gur qy pweIAY pwlY ]3](213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
[So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ]|



The primary question that boils down is the term Guru always GOD if one takes up this in the context Of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.Looking at the above there are terms like GURU, Satguru; it comes to mind if Waheguru not the Guru and satguru for us or should we stop at Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our GURU and GOd both; and do bani etc/keertan.I am not able to reconcile everytime I think of this. There should be a better answer to this.

You may like to help.

I am quoting a second line as an example.It may be read in continuation with the above.
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਾਜੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਗੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦਾਨੁ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/19403-guru-always-god-per-sri-guru.html
हरि हरि भगती काजु सुहेला गुरि सतिगुरि दानु दिवाइआ ॥
Har har bẖagṯī kāj suhėlā gur saṯgur ḏān ḏivā­i­ā.
Through devotional worship to the Lord, this ceremony is made blissful and beautiful; the Guru, the True Guru, has given this gift.




 
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Last edited by Sikh80; 22-Jan-2008 at 21:34 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 23-Jan-2008, 00:24 AM
Sherab's Avatar Sherab Sherab is offline
 
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re: Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbir Singh View Post
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

Thanks for the wonderful Vaak from Gurdev.

kir syvw siqgur Apuny kI gur qy pweIAY pwlY ]3](213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
[So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ]|

I did not know that 'Paalay' means Naam. Which dictionary describes it? Has Gurdev explained this also?


Balbir Singh
Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia
ਪਾਲਨ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ. "ਸੋ ਉਦਾਸੀ, ਜੋ ਪਾਲੈ ਉਦਾਸ". (ਵਾਰ ਰਾਮ ੧. ਮਃ ੧)। (2) ਕ੍ਰਿ. ਵਿ- ਪੱਲੇ. "ਨਾਮ ਧਨੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਕੈ ਪਾਲੈ". (ਧਨਾ ਮਃ ੫).
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Old 23-Jan-2008, 08:22 AM
Sikh80's Avatar Sikh80 Sikh80 is offline
 
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re: Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

I think the reply of Sherab would have served the purpose.However, for the sake of clarity I am giving the contextual usage of the tuk.May be it helps.


myry mn Guru guru sd krIAY ] (213-3, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403
O my mind, dwell always upon the Guru, Guru, Guru.
rqn jnmu sPlu guir kIAw drsn kau bilhrIAY ]1] rhwau ] (213-4, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
The Guru has made the jewel of this human life prosperous and fruitful. I am a sacrifice to the Blessed Vision of His Darshan. ||1||Pause||
jyqy sws gRws mnu lyqw qyqy hI gun gweIAY ] (213-4, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403
As many breaths and morsels as you take, O my mind - so many times, sing His Glorious Praises.
jau hoie dYAwlu siqguru Apunw qw ieh miq buiD pweIAY ]1] (213-5, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
When the True Guru becomes merciful, then this wisdom and understanding is obtained. ||1||
myry mn nwim ley jm bMD qy CUtih srb suKw suK pweIAY ] (213-6, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
O my mind, taking the Naam, you shall be released from the bondage of death, and the peace of all peace will be found.
syiv suAwmI siqguru dwqw mn bMCq Pl AweIAY ]2] (213-6, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
Serving your Lord and Master, the True Guru, the Great Giver, you shall obtain the fruits of your mind's desires. ||2||
nwmu iestu mIq suq krqw mn sMig quhwrY cwlY ] (213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
The Name of the Creator is your beloved friend and child; it alone shall go along with you, O my mind.
kir syvw siqgur Apuny kI gur qy pweIAY pwlY ]3] (213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ||3||
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Old 23-Jan-2008, 11:59 AM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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re: Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

I wonder why the translator chose to tranlsate palaai the way he did. Perhaps it comes from the context of the verse and the shabd. This link might provide a clue.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji :Page :SearchGurbani.com
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Old 23-Jan-2008, 12:22 PM
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re: Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ ਮਹਲਾ
गउड़ी पूरबी महला ५ ॥
Ga­oṛī pūrbī mehlā 5.
Gauree, Fifth Mehl:

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਦ ਕਰੀਐ
मेरे मन गुरु गुरु गुरु सद करीऐ ॥
Mėrė man gur gur gur saḏ karī­ai.
O my mind, dwell always upon the Guru, Guru, Guru.

ਰਤਨ ਜਨਮੁ ਸਫਲੁ ਗੁਰਿ ਕੀਆ ਦਰਸਨ ਕਉ ਬਲਿਹਰੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
रतन जनमु सफलु गुरि कीआ दरसन कउ बलिहरीऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Raṯan janam safal gur kī­ā ḏarsan ka­o baliharī­ai. ||1|| rahā­o.
The Guru has made the jewel of this human life prosperous and fruitful. I am a sacrifice to the Blessed Vision of His Darshan. ||1||Pause||

ਜੇਤੇ ਸਾਸ ਗ੍ਰਾਸ ਮਨੁ ਲੇਤਾ ਤੇਤੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਈਐ
जेते सास ग्रास मनु लेता तेते ही गुन गाईऐ ॥
Jėṯė sās garās man lėṯā ṯėṯė hī gun gā­ī­ai.
As many breaths and morsels as you take, O my mind - so many times, sing His Glorious Praises.

ਜਉ ਹੋਇ ਦੈਆਲੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅਪੁਨਾ ਤਾ ਇਹ ਮਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥
जउ होइ दैआलु सतिगुरु अपुना ता इह मति बुधि पाईऐ ॥१॥
Ja­o ho­ė ḏai­āl saṯgur apunā ṯā ih maṯ buḏẖ pā­ī­ai. ||1||
When the True Guru becomes merciful, then this wisdom and understanding is obtained. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਏ ਜਮ ਬੰਧ ਤੇ ਛੂਟਹਿ ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਈਐ
मेरे मन नामि लए जम बंध ते छूटहि सरब सुखा सुख पाईऐ ॥
Mėrė man nām la­ė jam banḏẖ ṯė cẖẖūteh sarab sukẖā sukẖ pā­ī­ai.
O my mind, taking the Naam, you shall be released from the bondage of death, and the peace of all peace will be found.

ਸੇਵਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਨ ਬੰਛਤ ਫਲ ਆਈਐ ॥੨॥
सेवि सुआमी सतिगुरु दाता मन बंछत फल आईऐ ॥२॥
Sėv su­āmī saṯgur ḏāṯā man bancẖẖaṯ fal ā­ī­ai. ||2||
Serving your Lord and Master, the True Guru, the Great Giver, you shall obtain the fruits of your mind's desires. ||2||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403

ਨਾਮੁ ਇਸਟੁ ਮੀਤ ਸੁਤ ਕਰਤਾ ਮਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਤੁਹਾਰੈ ਚਾਲੈ
नामु इसटु मीत सुत करता मन संगि तुहारै चालै ॥
Nām isat mīṯ suṯ karṯā man sang ṯuhārai cẖālai.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403
The Name of the Creator is your beloved friend and child; it alone shall go along with you, O my mind.

ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਕੀ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਾਲੈ ॥੩॥
करि सेवा सतिगुर अपुने की गुर ते पाईऐ पालै ॥३॥
Kar sėvā saṯgur apunė kī gur ṯė pā­ī­ai pālai. ||3||
So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ||3||

ਗੁਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾਲਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਧਾਰੀ ਬਿਨਸੇ ਸਰਬ ਅੰਦੇਸਾ
गुरि किरपालि क्रिपा प्रभि धारी बिनसे सरब अंदेसा ॥
Gur kirpāl kirpā parabẖ ḏẖārī binsė sarab anḏėsā.
When God, the Merciful Guru, showered His Mercy upon me, all my anxieties were dispelled.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਨਿ ਮਿਟਿਓ ਸਗਲ ਕਲੇਸਾ ॥੪॥੧੫॥੧੫੩॥
नानक सुखु पाइआ हरि कीरतनि मिटिओ सगल कलेसा ॥४॥१५॥१५३॥
Nānak sukẖ pā­i­ā har kīrṯan miti­o sagal kalėsā. ||4||15||153||
Nanak has found the peace of the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises. All his sorrows have been dispelled. ||4||15||153||

Last edited by Astroboy; 23-Jan-2008 at 13:19 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 23-Jan-2008, 14:47 PM
Sikh80's Avatar Sikh80 Sikh80 is offline
 
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re: Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

guru pauVI byVI Guru qulhw hir nwau ] (17-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403
The Guru is the Ladder, the Guru is the Boat, and the Guru is the Raft to take me to the Lord's Name.
guru sru swgru boihQo guru qIrQu drIAwau ] (17-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403
The Guru is the Boat to carry me across the world-ocean; the Guru is the Sacred Shrine of Pilgrimage, the Guru is the Holy River.
jy iqsu BwvY aUjlI sq sir nwvx jwau ]3] (17-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
If it pleases Him, I bathe in the Pool of Truth, and become radiant and pure.
suriq hovY piq aUgvY gurbcnI Bau Kwie ] (18-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Intuitive understanding is obtained and one is welcomed with honor, through the Guru's Word, filled with the Fear of God.
nwnk scw pwiqswhu Awpy ley imlwie ]4]10] (18-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
O Nanak, the True King absorbs us into Himself. ||4||10|

nwnk ndrI pweIAY scu nwmu guxqwsu ]4]1]34] (26-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
O Nanak, by His Glance of Grace, the True Name, the Treasure of Excellence, is obtained. ||4||1||34||
ibnu siqgur suKu n pwveI iPir iPir jonI pwih ]3] (26-17, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
But without the True Guru, you will not find peace; you will be reincarnated over and over again. ||3||
sic imly sy n ivCuVih iqn inj Gir vwsw hoie ]1] (27-2, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
Those who meet the True Lord are not separated again; they come to dwell in the home of the self deep within. ||1||
myry rwm mY hir ibnu Avru n koie ] (27-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
O my Lord! Without the Lord, I have no other at all.
sqguru scu pRBu inrmlw sbid imlwvw hoie ]1] rhwau ] (27-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
The True Guru leads us to meet the Immaculate True God through the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause||
sbid imlY so imil rhY ijs nau Awpy ley imlwie ] (27-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
One whom the Lord merges into Himself is merged in the Shabad, and remains so merged.
sic imly sy n ivCuVih iqn inj Gir vwsw hoie ]1] (27-2, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
Those who meet the True Lord are not separated again; they come to dwell in the home of the self deep within. ||1||
myry rwm mY hir ibnu Avru n koie ] (27-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
O my Lord! Without the Lord, I have no other at all.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 25-Jan-2008, 14:13 PM
Sikh80's Avatar Sikh80 Sikh80 is offline
 
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re: Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

kir syvw siqgur Apuny kI gur qy pweIAY pwlY ]3](213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403
[So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ]|



The primary question that boils down is the term Guru always GOD if one takes up this in the context Of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.Looking at the above there are terms like GURU, Satguru; it comes to mind if Waheguru not the Guru and satguru for us or should we stop at Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our GURU and GOd both; and do bani etc/keertan.I am not able to reconcile everytime I think of this. There should be a better answer to this.

You may like to help.

I am quoting a second line as an example.It may be read in continuation with the above.
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਾਜੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਗੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦਾਨੁ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403

Through devotional worship to the Lord, this ceremony is made blissful and beautiful; the Guru, the True Guru, has given this gift.

**********************
What is the significance of using Guru and true Guru in the same vaak.? Kindly clarify the two vaaks.
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Old 29-Jan-2008, 14:02 PM
Sikh80's Avatar Sikh80 Sikh80 is offline
 
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re: Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

resubmitted for guidance .
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Old 25-Oct-2009, 09:44 AM
Taranjeet singh's Avatar Taranjeet singh Taranjeet singh is offline
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re: Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

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The following 'sabad' appears on ang 23. The gurmukhi font is not working properly and hence the following translation is posted that states that True Guru is the mind's desire.May be learned one can throw some light.


Admin note: You give Ang 23 as the location of the Shabad, and identify the Guru as Guru Amar Das (3rd Mehl). But Guru Nanak is the aurhor of the bani on Ang 23; and Guru Amar Das's bani does not start until some pages later (Ang 26? ;). See my highlights in red. Would you set this matter straight so that a mod does not have to search for you. Kindly decide which Guru and which Ang. Then we can take this forward. Warm regards, Narayanjot Kaur
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403


Siree Raag, Third Mehl, First House:


One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:


I serve my True Guru with single-minded devotion, and lovingly focus my consciousness on Him. The True Guru is the mind's desire and the sacred shrine of pilgrimage, for those unto whom He has given this understanding. The blessings of the wishes of the mind are obtained, and the fruits of one's desires. Meditate on the Name, worship the Name, and through the Name, you shall be absorbed in intuitive peace and poise. ||1||


O my mind, drink in the Sublime Essence of the Lord, and your thirst shall be quenched. Those Gurmukhs who have tasted it remain intuitively absorbed in the Lord. ||1||Pause||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19403


Those who serve the True Guru obtain the Treasure of the Naam. Deep within, they are drenched with the Essence of the Lord, and the egotistical pride of the mind is subdued.The heart-lotus blossoms forth, and they intuitively center themselves in meditation.Their minds become pure, and they remain immersed in the Lord; they are honored in His Court. ||2||
Those who serve the True Guru in this world are very rare. Those who keep the Lord enshrined in their hearts subdue egotism and possessiveness. I am a sacrifice to those who are in love with the Naam. Those who attain the Inexhaustible Name of the Infinite Lord remain happy throughout the four ages. ||3||
Meeting with the Guru, the Naam is obtained, and the thirst of emotional attachment departs. When the mind is permeated with the Lord, one remains detached within the home of the heart.I am a sacrifice to those who enjoy the Sublime Taste of the Lord.O Nanak, by His Glance of Grace, the True Name, the Treasure of Excellence, is obtained. ||4||1||34||
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