Guru Arjan : The Creator

sd jIvxu Arjunu Amolu AwjonI sMBau ] (1407-11, sveIey mhly pMjvyN ky, kl´)
O Guru Arjun, You are Eternal, Invaluable, Unborn, Self-existent,
BX BMjnu pr duK invwru Apwru AnµBau ] (1407-11, sveIey mhly pMjvyN ky, kl´)
the Destroyer of fear, the Dispeller of pain, Infinite and Fearless.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/19175-guru-arjan-the-creator.html
Agh ghxu BRmu BRWiq dhxu sIqlu suK dwqau ] (1407-12, sveIey mhly pMjvyN ky, kl´)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175
You have grasped the Ungraspable, and burnt away doubt and skepticism. You bestow cooling and soothing peace.
AwsMBau audivAau purKu pUrn ibDwqau ] (1407-12, sveIey mhly pMjvyN ky, kl´)
The Self-existent, Perfect Primal Lord God Creator has taken birth.
************************************************** ***
Everytime we read Gurbani every time we come across new things. During the discussions in the thread 'Is It so..." Some of the member pointed that not only Guru Nanak dev ji was the Guru but Guru Arjan dev ji is self existent ..and unborn. This is to share with the sangat .The page no. of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji mentioned. In one thread we are sayinng that 'Nanak is the Guru and Nanak is the Lord'. Lord means Creator. In the present lines we are also stating the same things for Sri Arjan dev ji Maharaj.
Kindly guide If GUru maharaj is also the Primal Lord.

 
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__________________

bwxI Guru hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ] (982-10, nt, mÚ 4)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.

myry mn suKdwqw hir soie ] (42-8, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175
O my mind, the Lord is the Giver of peace.

Note:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175
In another thread 'Is it so..." [its name changed by the admin/moderators to 'Nanak was the Guru and Nanak was the lord' for the reasons known to them] it is being proclaimed that Guru nanak was the lord/Creator as well.

In the present thread which is the outcome of the strong insistence of one of the members who quoted this ang 1407 in support of an argument it is stated that guru arjun dev ji was also primal lord.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175

I cannot make out as to how can there be two Primal lords who came on the earth and died after completing their life span exist besides the One primal Lord whom Both Have eulogised and praised in their writinngs. There seems to be something that I am not able to find out. Hence if anyone can throw some light on this aspect we shall be very grateful.

I am Of the strong view that guru sahib was an humble being and had sought salvation and might have merged with the Lord but he himself cannot be the creator.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175
Regarding this line of Gurmukhi, it has to be reconciled so that it falls in line with sikh philosphy.

Veerji, this might help clarify your query.

Source:Q & A: Does It Make Sense That Sikhs Worship 10 Gurus Like Gods? - DiscoverSikhi.Com
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175

"Q: Does it make sense that Sikhs have 10 Gurus whom they worship? Are there 10 Gods? What makes you different than Hindus?


A: Firstly the term ‘Guru’ needs to be examined. The term 'Guru' in Sikhi is not used for a teacher or a guide or an expert or even a human body. The word Guru is composed of two terms:
GU – means darkness and
RŪ – means Light.

In Sikhi the word 'Guru' is, thus, defined as the Light that dispels all darkness, and that is called ‘Jyot’ (Divine Light). Guru Nanak Sahib jee was, the True Guru (Satguru), the embodiment of Divine Light.

gur nwnk dyv goivMd rUp ]8]1]
“Guru Nanak is embodiment of the Light of God.”
(Ang 1192)

In Sikhi the Guru is in whom the Light of God shines fully, visibly and completely. Guru is in union with Divine. Thus, ushers the devotee, the seeker of Truth into a spiritual birth. Through the True Guru the Glory of God is transmitted to humanity. Satguru is one with God and has existed since the start of time. Guru Nanak Sahib jee is not a human but is in fact Shabad (Divine Infinite Wisdom). This Shabad-Jyot (the Light) came into human form to reveal Naam to humanity, which is the only path to realise and merge into God and end the circle of birth, death, heaven and hell.


Do Sikhs have ‘Ten Gurus’?

There is ‘one’ Guru. The Ten were for explaining the completeness. The Ten figures are a complete figure.

Guru Nanak Sahib jee took the form of Ten bodies. Bhatt Mathura jee in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee clearly shows this:
joiq rUip hir Awip gurU nwnku khwXau ]
qw qy AMgdu BXau qq isau qqu imlwXau ]
“The Embodiment of Light, the Lord Himself is called Guru Nanak. From Him, came Guru Angad; His essence was absorbed into the essence.”
(Ang 1408)

The Ten Nanaks had one same universal message. They had a direct connection with the Divine. They don’t show you experience, rather they show you how to experience the Divine. The Shabad (Infinite Wisdom) is the True Guru, Satguru. And Satguru Nanak Sahib jee is in essence the ‘Shabad’. Guru Nanak Sahib jee and the Ten bodies revealed and interpreted the Shabad.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175

gur mih Awpu smoie sbdu vrqwieAw ]
“'In the True Guru (Nanak) You have installed Your own Spirit; You are pervading through the Word of Your Shabad.”
(Ang 1279)


There is only ‘One God’. A Sikh worships only the ‘One God’ and bows his or her head only to the Shabad (Infinite Divine Wisdom) which took the form of Ten Nanaks and was recorded in writing, which is the Sikh Guru today – Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee, the revealed Divine Word of God."

Thanks for providing support material for providing justification that there is only one PRimal lord.

Amarpal
SPN Sewadaar



Enrolled: Jun 2004
Location: India
Age: 62
Posts: 415


Re: Guru And God No Difference
Dear Khalsa Ji,

'The Sat' is Nirakaar, Guru is Akaar. It is very clear from this that Guru cannot be 'The Sat' (God).

Assuming Guru to be God is not the way of Sikhs; Sikhi does not preaches it. It is the accepted way of ancient religions, our Guru Sahibs have never considered any Akaar (form or bodied entity) to be The Sat'.

This truth is self evident, no Akaar can be omnipresent which 'The Sat' is.

If Guru is equated with 'The Sat' them worship of beings and dieties will be justified. This is the cultural attributes of followers of ancient religions. If the followers of Sikh religion start accepting this thier ways will become similar to those of the followers of ancient religion and finally they will get dissolve in thier mass.

Let us not drift away from Sikhi. Guru is not 'The Sat' (God).

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

The above post Of amarpal ji [posted in other thread i,e GUru is god and God is guru] sums up the position of guru sahibs and 'SAt' i.e. self existent and saibhang features of the Niraakaar. Nirakkar is the 'sat'

sd jIvxu Arjunu Amolu AwjonI sMBau ] (1407-11, sveIey mhly pMjvyN ky, kl´)
O Guru Arjun, You are Eternal, Invaluable, Unborn, Self-existent,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175
BX BMjnu pr duK invwru Apwru AnµBau ] (1407-11, sveIey mhly pMjvyN ky, kl´)
the Destroyer of fear, the Dispeller of pain, Infinite and Fearless.
************************************************** **
The above lines are reproduced for the sake Of discussion. It is clearly stated that Arjan Dev Ji maharaj was saibhang. To my untrained mind it appears exaggeration. Any one who has an alternative answer may kindly opine and discuss. Regards,

We should not get confused ourself by introducing the words GOD or LORD in interpretation of Gurbaani.If we can examine the grammer of the word GOD /LORD we would find these references do not fit anwhere as reference for anything in Gurbaani.
Once we are clear in this aspects then only we will be able to understand the actual reference meanings of the word GURU and GUR.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19175
Gurbaani is all about GURU -GUR.There is nothing beyond the word GURU itself so there is no question of any thing being reffered as GOD or LORD in Gurbaani.
This should be considered in right prospective of Gurbaani.

Prakash.S.Bagga