Five tests of True Religion...

#1 (**permalink**) 30-Jun-2004, 14:57 PM

I read this on a forum... what do Sikhs think about it ?

Quote:

"When the time of destruction is at hand the intellect becomes perverted." Vridha Chan. 16:17.

The ancient religion of the Aryas.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/3440/true.html
There were no temple, no mosque and no church. Everyone worship the one true God. There were no mediator, no incarnation or manifestation and no prophet. God was only addressed according to His Nature, Attributes and characteristics.

It is the only faith that is in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws as determined by the five tests listed below:-

* It must exist in its entirety from the beginning of creation for all of mankind. Oppose - Millions born before Moses, Christ and Mohammad were deprived of the 'Ten Commandments', the New Testament and the Q'uran respectively.

*It must conform with natural laws.
Oppose - The cause of the physical body is the reproductive element - man created out of dust/blood-clot and any other method of conception as 'virgin birth' is a breach to this law.

*It must be in harmony with reasoning. Oppose - Incest is immoral now and it had to be the same also in the beginning (creation of one man and one woman). Cain's wife had to be his sister.

*It must be in harmony with science.
Oppose - Modern science has proven creation to be more than 6,000 (biblical age) years old.

*Its truth must be confirmed by four evidences:-
(i)Direct Cognition - Not all that is known by perception can be true.
(ii)Inferences - God is eternal therefore we can infer that there were past creations and as well as there will be future ones.
(iii)Testimony - The testimonies of Rishis, sages and seers of the Vedas (altruistic teachers are all in harmony with each other. (iv)History - There are many books (Mahabharata, Valmiki's Ramayan) and source of other civilization which speak of the past ancient Vedic (Aryan) civilization.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/3440/index.html
Regards,
Vijai Singh

FireStorm · #2 (**permalink**) 02-Jul-2004, 20:39 PM

Thank you Charger fro bringing this to our notice:

The ancient religion of the Aryas.

There were no temple, no mosque and no church. Everyone worship the one true God. There were no mediator, no incarnation or manifestation and no prophet. God was only addressed according to His Nature, Attributes and characteristics.

I think that Vijai Singh has gone overboard in his zeal to proove that the religion of the Aryans worshipped one true God. Firstly I would like to have proof on the above. What texts is Vijai referring to.

His statements are quite clever in the sense that he says " God was only addressed according to His Nature, Attributes and characteristics". An explanation would be relevant. was it God to whom all these characterstics were attributed, and was it He who was worshipped, OR was it that these attributes were individually worshipped. In a sense that would mean that the Creator is forgotten, his pwer is being remembered. How can this qualify as the worship of one True God.

Further the remaing part of the statement needs to be substantiated by the relevant proofs/ scriptuires on which this claim is being made. !!

There is only one True Faith as Gurbani says - The Name of the God, and Guru Maharj goes on to further says that his House (Nanak's house) has Only Naam. - the Name of God.

It is the only faith that is in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws as determined by the five tests listed below:-

* It must exist in its entirety from the beginning of creation for all of mankind. Oppose - Millions born before Moses, Christ and Mohammad were deprived of the 'Ten Commandments', the New Testament and the Q'uran respectively.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/173-five-tests-of-true-religion.html

Sikhi shows that, no special tactics are needed to reach God. The inclusion of the Baani of Hindu Bhagats and Muslim Saints shows that they attained God as well. However they attained God without any intermediaries, following the path shown by Satguru

The rest of the tests seem more like reasons to do away with Islam and Chrsitianity

*Its truth must be confirmed by four evidences:-

(i)Direct Cognition - Not all that is known by perception can be true.

Pray, explain what this means !!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=173

(ii)Inferences - God is eternal therefore we can infer that there were past creations and as well as there will be future ones.

Past Creations in what sense. Is this a reference to incarnations !!!

(iii)Testimony - The testimonies of Rishis, sages and seers of the Vedas (altruistic teachers are all in harmony with each other.

Why only the Vedas. Anyway the Vedas are not all hunky dory. They only contain instancs of truth. They do NOT contain Naam. 8

(iv)History - There are many books (Mahabharata, Valmiki's Ramayan) and source of other civilization which speak of the past ancient Vedic (Aryan) civilization.

Again the references are only to Hindu Books.

All in all a Biased post meant to bring out the 'superiority' of Hindu religion. The Tests and the reasonings are all simple statements, not supported by any theory !!

Akal Sahai

FireStorm

Neutral Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 06-Jul-2004, 13:38 PM

Quote:

There were no temple, no mosque and no church. Everyone worship the one true God. There were no mediator, no incarnation or manifestation and no prophet. God was only addressed according to His Nature, Attributes and characteristics.

I think that Vijai Singh has gone overboard in his zeal to proove that the religion of the Aryans worshipped one true God. Firstly I would like to have proof on the above. What texts is Vijai referring to.

His statements are quite clever in the sense that he says " God was only addressed according to His Nature, Attributes and characteristics". An explanation would be relevant. was it God to whom all these characterstics were attributed, and was it He who was worshipped, OR was it that these attributes were individually worshipped. In a sense that would mean that the Creator is forgotten, his pwer is being remembered. How can this qualify as the worship of one True God.

Further the remaing part of the statement needs to be substantiated by the relevant proofs/ scriptuires on which this claim is being made. !!

There is only one True Faith as Gurbani says - The Name of the God, and Guru Maharj goes on to further says that his House (Nanak's house) has Only Naam. - the Name of God.

Dear FireStorm,

My hindu friends ask me how the worship of one attribute is bad? How does this conveys that they do not accept the existance of one true lord, Brahma in their case. In my humble opinion the problem that Guru Nanak Ji addressed was that even while addressing these attributes of Ik Ongkar... so called higher class people had started discriminating the over the superiority or inferiority of these attributes... Hindus did not allow these so-called lower caste Hindus to enter upper caste places of worship because they said that only high-caste Hindus had the right to worship and right to book their ticket to so-called heaven. This eventually resulted in mental division of mindset of people and they started fighting over attributes of the Almighty. This strategy of high class Hindus resulted in pathetic life for condemned people i.e. shudra. Can you believe that around 20% of upper class Brahmins controlled 80% lower caste hindus for 3-4 milleniums and Guru Nanak roared Ik Ongkar... God is One... and there was noone superior or inferior in the eyes of the Almighty.

Quote:

*Its truth must be confirmed by four evidences:-

(i)Direct Cognition - Not all that is known by perception can be true.

Pray, explain what this means !!

Dictionary meaning... the psychological result of perception and learning and reasoning.

I tend to agree with this point. Our perception is indeed limited to our life experiences. What we may perceive true may not me true as we realise in due course of time... but unfortunately science is not absolute in itself... its ever evolving... scientists change their theories daily.

Quote:

(ii)Inferences - God is eternal therefore we can infer that there were past creations and as well as there will be future ones.

Past Creations in what sense. Is this a reference to incarnations !!!

Dictionary meaning... The reasoning involved in drawing a conclusion or making a logical judgment on the basis of circumstantial evidence and prior conclusions rather than on the basis of direct observation.

circumstantial evidence and prior conclusions !! needs some elaboration.

Quote:

(iii)Testimony - The testimonies of Rishis, sages and seers of the Vedas (altruistic teachers are all in harmony with each other.

Why only the Vedas. Anyway the Vedas are not all hunky dory. They only contain instancs of truth. They do NOT contain Naam.

Agreed !! Vedas contain some truth and need is to reveal it to everyone... making truth a personal property is bad. Dear FireStorm, you said they do not contain Naam... please explain more.

Quote:

(iv)History - There are many books (Mahabharata, Valmiki's Ramayan) and source of other civilization which speak of the past ancient Vedic (Aryan) civilization.

Again the references are only to Hindu Books.
All in all a Biased post meant to bring out the 'superiority' of Hindu religion. The Tests and the reasonings are all simple statements, not supported by any theory !!

Who were the Aryans ? why so fuss over their superiority ?

Best Regards