Why am I sikh?

(Before jumping into this I think it would be polite of me to state the overall theme of the following thread. I will not be discussing why I love sikhism or how I found sikhism. Instead I will be presenting some questions from a sketpical person with sikh parents.)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/14411-why-am-i-sikh.html

Why am I a sikh? Why should I be? What proof is there that I should believe? Do I just need to have faith?

These are questions I ask myself quite regularly. Maybe when I was a teenager if somebody asked me whether or not I was a sikh I would have said yes.

However, these days I find it difficult to admit that I am a sikh. I don't go to the the temple on a regular basis (really only for special events and weddings). The times that I do go I don't really feel interested in getting involved with prayers and etc.

One from here may quickly jump and wrongly accuse me of being ignorant of my own religion. My apathy towards sikhism doesn't result from poor parenting or lack of education. It likey stems from a few kids I met through my adolescence who asked me some questions, questions I had no answers to. Maybe you do, maybe you don't?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14411

Firstly, the title of this thread. Why am I sikh? Is there really a decent answer to that question. The only coherent answer I can think of is "because my parents are". But should a person really structure his/her belief system according to a viewpoint his/her parents held? What if the religion of a child's parents was corrupt and held very immoral beliefs. Should this child just blindly accept what he/she is told to believe?

Now, I am not suggesting that sikhism is corrupt or immoral (I definitely would never say that). What I am trying to suggest is that the answer "because my parents are" is not valid.

Let's take this question a bit further. If I was born into a hindu/christian/muslim family would I end up later in life finding sikhism and converting? I don't think I (or anyone) could say yes to that question with 100% certainty. Of course this is taking the question and twisting it into a completely impossible scenario. Children are merely a product of their parents (genetically). The hypothetical starting with "If I was born from different parents" is inherently flawed. If I had different parents I would no longer be me and therefore I cannot expect this other me to end up with the same system of beliefs as the real me.

Now of course some may argue "well that's not true, we have souls which are capable of transcending space, time and matter" or something to that effect. I'd rather leave that line of argument out of this. The concept of souls (at least when using the conventional definition of the word) requires one to have faith in something that remains for the most part "unproven".

So how about this scenario. Imagine a kid that was born from sikh parents. While the kid is very young (say...1-2 years old), the parents end up getting in some sort of accident and die (or decide to not be capable of raising the child and put him in an orphanage, whatever scenario you prefer). The child is put in a house until a loving hindu couple adopt the child. Treating the child as their own, they, of course, raise the child as a hindu. Once the child grows up he/she pursues a life as a devout hindu. He/she may never be aware that his original parents were sikhs.

Now some ppl might argue that the kid was DESTINED to be a hindu. That this was just god's plan for him. What do you think?

Back to my life though. These days I don't consider myself sikh. My personal belief system probably falls closer to an atheist than a sikh. I read here that sikhism isn't really a religion. However, whenever I read things about a belief system having a creator the word religion is immediately what I think. Can somebody possibly clear this up for me?

That is all I have time for the moment. I look forward to publishing some more posts and hopefully hearing some intellectual responses. Until then...

 
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mate you're wasting your time. you're a sikh, accept it or not, but thats what you are. there is no point questioning it. its an obvious fact of reality.

What if i were born a stool? Would I like people sitting on me? Would i have chosen sikhism later? Silly question because you know that you cant answer this sensibly. if you were born to another set of parents well mate that wouldnt be you, that would be someone else.

Forget about this - choosing ones path ********. Its for phudus who have too much time on their hands. Ask instead, how can i be useful member of society? How can i contribute to the hapiness of my family? How can i be successful in my life? Things like that are more useful questions to ponder.

Nonsense. You arent an atheist. Your a sikh who is too lazy to live as one. Just do it. Read your japji sahib, do your seva, take care of your family, and be a useful member of society. Work on the basics, thats the point.

Nevermind what people say about Sikhism here. They are just too awed by liberalism interpretations of Sikhism to think Sikhi has nothing to do with ordinary society. They're wrong about this and if you are interested you can read a thread of mine on the other board where i discuss such misconceptions. As it happens, Sikhi is a religion. nevermind if it wasnt a religion when baba nanak lived - it has become one since then. Sikhs have a religious code, they have their history, they have their culture and they have their society. one cannot deny this.

I'd have to say I disagree with you on some points

Hmm, wasting my time? I don't see how questioning what belief system you are going to follow is at all a waste of time. The worst thing I think people can do is just blindly accept what they are told without questioning it

Yah, I pointed out the flaw in my own argument in the original post..

Firstly, I will admit those questions are also important but I wasn't really talking about chosing a path. I personally tend to reject concepts like fate and destiny. I don't see how people can really believe in it. THere is no proof or evidence that states that all our actions are controlled by some deity. Fate, come on ppl, give me a break

Okay this little piece annoyed me. I am not an atheist? How can you even say something so bold without even knowing me. You read one little blurb I wrote in 10 minutes and think you can correct me on whether or not I am sikh. I am not too lazy to be a sikh. I would be a sikh if I thought that any of the teachings were at all necesary to be a moral, functioning adult. I have never been provided substantial proof that god even exists and if he does I have never been provided any reason to belief sikhism over any other religion.

If you can provide any real factual evidence that shows me why you think I should be sikh (or heck even why you are a sikh) I might start reconsidering sikhism. I do not really want to hear "stop the nonsense, you are a sikh" or even "it's just something you have to believe".

I think that most people these days don't have any real, tangible evidence that explains why they are religious in the first place and secondly why they subscribe to one religion over another

You reject them because people these days are so self obsessed and selfish that they cant see beyond themselves. Thats the main reason - forget about 'questioning beliefs' and things like that.

Let me point out one important thing - you arent Guru Nanak - You arent Ramanand or Kabir or Naam Dev or any of those spiritual fellas. You're just another face in a sea of faces in the 21st century. They questioned and we should learn from what they taught. There is no need for every single person in our society to question everything, without a good reason. And no your reason isnt good enough - "The worst thing I think people can do is just blindly accept what they are told without questioning it" - its not the worst thing. I happen to think the Sikh faith is good enough that it doesnt need to be questioned every two seconds by every second Rahul who gets up on a 'But Guru Nanak Questioned' trip. Yes Guru Nanak did. No that doesnt mean you should do the same too. It doesnt follow at all that you should, just because he did. He also wrote Bani and started a new religion - are you going to do that too? He also travelled the world teaching people about his faith - are you going to do that? Imagine if everyone in our society did those things - who would do the work? Who would run the businesses, milk the cows, feed the kids, harvest the crops, write the books, run the races, paint the walls, marry the kids, etc.

You dont believe in fate or destiny because you cant accept that there is a point to living, beyond your own amazing existence. you are so in love with yourself that you need a reason for not being so in love wiht yourself - and believing you are such an individuaul that you wont follow the grain, and do what others do. But no reason will be good enough to make you choose against being in love with yourself. No abstract God can do that. Fate and destiny constrain your precious individuality - which you love so much that you put it above the basics of your Sikh faith - which emphasises instead, the good of the community, and ones role in being a productive and useful member of your direct community.

Sorry bro, but I know who you wrote very well because what you wrote is very familiar to me. Ive heard such things expressed a dozen times, and ive thought about these and on those thoughts myself. Their selfish and destructive. You arent an athieist, you only think that way because its romantic to be an Individual - to stand out of the crowd - but why should that be any better? You might convince yourselfg that you've thought yourself into that position but the truth is, you just took whatever others do, and reversed it. Your choice is just as arbitrary really as the original one. Basically you dont want to believe in a God because you already believe your the master of your destiny and you cant accept anyone else having power over you. You are your own God. But this is false, not because God exists and he has power over you - i dont know that, no more than you do. But because there are many people in the world who have power over you. Your president could have your arrested and sentenced to death for being a dodgy terrorist - a rich man could pay a bum to have your throat sliced. Another could buy your freedom by offering you millions and millions of dollars. Are you really that free - even just amongst mere morals? Think about it.

You wouldnt be a Sikh? Thats news to me. You do know that not every Sikh is a revolutionary, anti establishmentarian, dont you? I mean the way you people think these days, you'd think those fools who become the Guru's Sikhs in those days were fools, for giving up their freedom and deciding to follow some Guru dude, even though if they really were good Sikhs they'd just sit there questioning everything. What a joke.

You want proof? Are you f**king stupid? No one can prove to you why should believe something, no less believe a religion. I can give you good practical reasons but you really have to put down the 'me me me' attitude, that disgusting 'individuality' above all costs sickness and think about what im about to say:

Do it because being a good Sikh means you are a good useful and respectable member of society. You will live your life in the rich tradition of the Sikhs, who have fought long and hard to keep their communities safe; who've cherished good society and always tried to keep it going, even through the most difficult times. If you can read the history of the SIkhs, and feel some affinity to those people and what they have achieved through selfnessless - and complete disregard for selfish notions of 'individualism' then you'll have learnt an important lesson. This by the way is somethign the Sikh faith can give you - that no other palatable faith can give you. Not liberalism - the biggest religion of the moment. Sikhi.

None exists, stop looking for it or demanding it. If you are a member of the sikh community, you should be a useful and positive member of that community. If you question everything and anything in the community you'll just be a cynical bast**d who does little good, but finds plenty to complain about. Dont question just for the sake of questioning - question when there is a good reason.

By the way if all of this is harsh, then yes it is, but i am not purposely trying to be cruel. I do want to help you, i just think you need to be shaken up into doubting the nonsense individualism that has taken hold over you.

Consider in the past men gave their lives to a cause, they fought for principle, they lived to find a cure, to teach the young, to protect the weak, to die for their people. Even today, men and women work their lives to raise their kids in good circumstance. They suffer through the most difficult circumstances so their families can be safe and healthy and successful. These were not wastes. They did something for other people. We should not forget that we live amongst others, and we cant divorce the questions of 'faith and fate, and things like that' from the wider community that we are part of. Even family and friends if you arent concernred about someone you dont know and dont care about. Altrurism is not something to be dismissed away as a myth - its real and pervasive. The Sikhs believe in it. If you are a Sikh - believe in too - and make use of your precious intellect, ability and opportunities.

ur karams were good in ur last life so u got to be a sikh and if u do good in this janam then u migh t be able to become a sant in ur next janam cool huh

This is an absolute pathetic cry. You are just another sorry pain in place where the sun does not shine person who just dont want to go to temple, do your prayers and keep hair. You just want to be modern, smoke and look cool in front of the chicks.

Now after many years of being lazy and sitting under your mother's skirt, you decide to ask "Why am I a Sikh"? All I can say is that answers are with you. Go to the gurudwara in the morning and meditate and read about the gurus and their sacrificies so that we all can have a faith called Sikhism. You are the type of person that no one should be your friend as one day you will question, are you really my friend or what is a friend? what a born loser
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14411
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14411

Satwant

Having sikh parents is like finding yourself on a road which you have to trust , leads to something worthwhile. Now you dont spend your time on the roadside thinking you should rather have been present on that yonder junction to be better placed or some other. (you could - if you felt that yonder road would better reach you to your destination. But in case of the journey to the center of your self every road (every faith) reaches there.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14411
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14411
Athism also exists on the "denial of theism"

What you are going through - is quite usual in everyones life- you feel lost and confused. Modern life can make you that. But to realise the futility of life the elders say that one should visit a funeral or see patients in a hospital. Once you are convinced of your mortality and the fact that you have a limited time on this life and dont remember a thing before or or will later after death- you will bloody well search for a meaning for all this.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14411
Temple visiting is not important- guru says that the ultimate temple is your self- first the 'presence. has to be there for you to be spiritual. Are you there- no you are scattered outside.- with your feelings, possessions ( even ideas are possessions), relations, career, money etc.

Well, I guess I have a lot to respond to.

The unfortunate thing is that most of you guys have completely missed the point. Instead of taking this opportunity to offer advice you have instead resorted to personal attacks. Instead of presenting logical arguments you have decided to make assumptions of my character. I feel that I am partly to blame because I may not have done the best job relaying my message.

I did not make my original post so I could spurt out random anti sikh garbage. I made that post so I could ask some questions. The same questions I talk to my parents about, people at the sikh temple, and officials from other churches. I am in pursuit of achieving a greater understanding of the world around me. I am not here to attack you or your beliefs. I am here to learn about what you believe and why. I came here full of questions seeking answers. I am seemingly leaving here with a handful of insults.

From my understanding Sikhism teaches you to be mindful and respectful of other people’s beliefs. I am not seeing that here.

With that preliminary topic discussed allow me to move on. It seems to me that most of you guys are trying to promote an attitude “you’re a sikh, just listen to what you are told, stop questioning things!” That type of attitude I think is very dangerous. The type of religion a person subscribes to lays out the foundation for how a person will live their life. It affects all of us at our very core and it is something that is in play in every decision we make throughout our entire adult life.

It is quite evident that religion is a very important matter. Why is it that I am being asked to shut up and to stop thinking about it? The only reason I question my religion is because I am aware of its importance. Heck, I would rather question Sikhism and later find that it is truly a religion that aligns with my personal life philosophy and cherish it because I understand it rather than blindly follow the teachings.

Now to discuss the horrendous personal attacks made by Satwant. For the record, I do not smoke, I respect my parents, I am attending university, and I am working while going to school to ensure my parents don’t end up with huge bills. On a daily basis I bus to school and work even though my parents offered to lend me a car. I do this because I care about the environment and because I’d rather not have my parents working hard to pay for my expenses. It troubles me how you so quickly assume that because I am questioning my faith that I am a freeloading, smoking teenager who only cares about picking up chicks. I sincerely hope you that in the future you are capable of looking past these stereotypes that are seemingly blinding you from the truth.

I have the utmost respect for my parents and my immediate family. I respect my culture and my upbringing and I have not lost touch with my roots. I am still proud of who I am and the country my parents are from. Sihkism is the only aspect of my life that I am questioning. I am not rejecting it nor am I trying to sully it.

Now, I shall go to some comments posted earlier by skeptik. I do not think that I am god, I do see myself as an individual in this world but that does not mean that I think that my wants and needs are more important than anybody else’s. I do not wish to discuss the concept of fate and why I do not believe in it. If you wish we may start another thread and discuss it at length but it is not pertinent to this topic. Discussing it here will only lead us on a tangent.

I am annoyed, however, by the argument of “you are nothing compared to the guru’s stop questioning them, you may never understand their true intentions”. The argument that we are too stupid to understand entirely what god meant and therefore are in no position to question god isn’t much of an argument. It essentially throws you in a position where logic cannot defeat your argument. It accomplishes nothing except killing any potential for an intellectual debate.

And again please don’t respond to this by saying “shut up and go to the gurdwara and listen to what they have to tell you”. That isn’t the answer. I have done that for many years and it is what has led me to where I am today. What a person would gain from the gurdwara mainly helps people that already believe in Sikhism moderately and are being troubled over small details. The concept of a deity, the concept of supernatural beings is really what is troubling me.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14411
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14411

Also please don’t tell me to give back to my community. By doing so you assume that I already don’t do that. I give back to my community plenty through volunteering (by “my community” I don’t just mean the sikh community, I refer to a larger community consisting of people from all religions and races).

There is much more I can say, but I will leave it at this and wait for some responses. Additionally, I would like to ask that we stop the insulting. My intent is to encourage intellectual debate about Sikhism, Atheism, and other systems of beliefs. I am not here to bully anybody. If that is why you are here, then I recommend you not waste your time.