Guru's or God?

Do you believe the Guru's and God are one? Who do you pray to? Have you ever wondered whether an intercessor/s are necessary to worship God? If you believe Guru's and God are one, what exactly do we pray to? Just a bit confused..

As a comparison, the Islamic understanding is that a Prophet is a human being, and for them Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is just a Prophet..what do we believe our Guru's are? How would you compare?
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''...Seriousness is a sickness; your sense of humor makes you more human, more humble. The sense of humor -- according to me -- is one of the most essential parts of religiousness....''

As a comparison, the Islamic understanding is that a Prophet is a human being, and for them Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is just a Prophet..[/QUOTE]

if that is the case,then why they worship to Mohammad's "grave" in Mecca?...i know,they even offers there 5 prayers to that direction.....

I believe Guroo Sahibs and God are one, Guru Nank Dev Ji is Nirankar himself, then Guroo Nanak Dev Ji passed the jot of God into Guroo Angad Dev Ji and so on. With my tiny brain i understand that Guroo Sahibs jot is like a drop of water from the sea of Vaheguroo. pls correct me if i am wrong bhull chuk maaf

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.


GURUS came from GOD but are definitley NOT GOD/AKAL PURAKH.
Guru Ji themselves have written very strictly AGAINST calling them GOD/WAHEGURU as WAHEGURU is AJOONI..He is NEVER BORN...but the GURUS were all BORN.....WAHEGURU is AKAAL....independent of the boundaries of TIME and DEATH..WAHEGURU is TIMELESS and BEYOND DEATH..our GURUS who were Born and lived their human lives and also DIED.

The SIDHS asked GURU NANAK JI " who is your GURU..and Guru Ji replied SHABAD is MY GURU.... that SHABAD is in the GURBANI..and the JYOT of GURUS rests in the GURU GRANTH JI...which is our GURU from time immemorial..but technically from 1708 when GURU GOBIND SINGH JI left this Mortal World and told us to beleive ONLy in GURU GRANTH JI.

From Thence on NO HUMAN GURU/DEHDHAREE GURU/SANT/BABA is "REQUIRED" as an intermediary to help us across the Ocean of MAYA as GURU JI in His INFINITE WISDOM has already prepared the GURU GRANTH for eternity to offer us guidance.

The "word picture" of AKAL PURAKH is sketched in the MOOL MANTAR... the WAY to meet WAHEGURU which is our GOAL...is further explained in the JAPJI SAHIB...and then further explained more than adequately in the entire GURBANI of GURU GRANTH JI through the words of the varuious Bhagtas, Holy men of Islam, Hinduism, Bhatts, etc...leaving no dount that to meet GOD is through breaking the WALL between GOD and Human...and that wall can only be Broken by the SELF. ONLY the SELF will go before GOD..no mother/father/brother/sister/wife/husband/uncle/daddy/auntie/grandma/grandpa/holy man/sadhu/babaji/maharaj ji/sant ji/brahmgiani ji....is GOING TO ACCOMPANY the SELF in front of Yamraaj where the lekha is to be read out...as we sow so shall we reap...NO BODY can be of any help whatsoever..ONLy the Naam we japp, the good deeds we do, the simran we did will go with us.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/1390-gurus-or-god.html

The SANTS, the Brahmgianais who do Naam japp/simran/bhagtee all do it for SELF..it will serve them ONLY...they CANT give it away to anyone...otherwise GURBANI would have said so..BUT Gurbani is very clear on this point. So there is NO SHORTCUT...NO catching hold of a sant/babaji's chola and swimming across the ocean of maya holding on to him....sorry but Gurbani says clerarly: Karmee appo apni...not karmnee sant ji ki/ or karmee babaji ki...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1390

The GURUS were the DIVINE MESSENGERS...they came they passed us the MESSAGE...now it is up to us to FOLLOW the mESSAGE, live our lives accordingly and gain from the vast knowledge Guru Ji left for us...

Jarnail Singh

i agree with you Gyani,in the beginning it was shabad(word),and in the End its a shabad(guru granth sahib ji)

I kinda understand where you are coming from but disagree with your choice of words. In a sense we are all nirankar [formless] as we all have a formless soul. Gurus were not one with God from birth, they became one with God by defeating all vices and meditating on him.
Every human is unique and has different knowledge of the one God, so we would come under as a drop of water, but religious scholars/teachers/Gurus would be considered as a bucket of God's sea of knowledge rather than just a droplet of water [which is what all ordinary people are].

Jarnail Singh, how would you explain the tuk 'gur parmesar eko jaan'? Yes Akaal is not born, but He is also within us, and we are reborn, but He remains the same does He not? Would you say the Sargun aspect of Vaheguru is not within us because we were created? Or would you say it is but we havent realised it unlike the Guru's? What would you call a being who has realised Himself? Dont try to put things into boxes and open your mind.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1390
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1390

Lion, fYI, the Muslims who pray to the Prophet's grave are severely misguided and do not represent the main body of Muslims following Sunnah, they are similar to the Sikhs who believe all Sants and Mahapurush are fake, extremists.

Bhen Ji,
Gur Parmeshar eko jaan... Jaan means "treat".."consider"...the GURU teaches us about Parmehsar..so a "GURU" can be considered "parmehsar"..BUT HE is NOT Parmeshar Himself..one is a Drop of water..the other is the Ocean....both same in some ways..but definitley drop is not the ocean.
Parmeshar is in all of us...the GURU makses us "see" JAAN the Parmeshar INSIDE US. Actually the "sadhu", Sant", "guru" mentioned in Gurbani are all that entity INSIDE us that point us towards WAHEGURU..our "inner conscience"that always has that tiny voice telling us the correct thing to do..

We have all heard of the famous phrase..All MEN are Brothers. Now that doesnt mean that all men are really brothers in the sense of same dna, parents etc..it just means "treat" "consider" all men as brothers just as in the gurbani tuk you quoted above...this is used metaphorically and not literally. IF we take BOTH quotes literally then we will face a myriad of problems ..GUrbani doesnt create problems..it solves them.

Love

jarnail Singh

Lion, fYI, the Muslims who pray to the Prophet's grave are severely misguided and do not represent the main body of Muslims following Sunnah, they are similar to the Sikhs who believe all Sants and Mahapurush are fake, extremists.[/QUOTE]


it means,whoever goes to Mecca or pray aroud Kabha,they are all misguided?..where are the true muslims then?