Respect For Guru Ji - Guru Granth Sahib

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH.

Recently a campaign is in the news a lot.... this is the campaign called "respect for Guru Ji...

may I be so bold as to direct their attention to the Ghor Beadbi ALMOST ALL SIKHS commit when ever a smagam/akhand paath/sehaj paath etc is held in a HOME or away from the Gurdwara.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/1241-respect-guru-ji-guru-granth-sahib.html

Most of the time, we Parkash GURU JI sroop on a manji that has four small posts stuck on its paveh..and two feet above these four posts are covered with a rumalla...

The space is so confined chaur cannot be done properly.... when the chaur sewak stands up for ardass his hands are ABOVE the so called chandni...
This small contraption goes under the name of "THRONE of sacha patshah Guru Ji ".... what a joke. It is usually stuck in any small space adn usually the granthi has to squeeze behind it in a really tight squeeze as well ( trust me I know as I have to deal with such nearly every week !!)

What do the readers think ??
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241

jarnail Singh

 
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__________________
We hear with our ears but we listen with our minds.
Hearing the sound of a mantra is one thing - listening to it is another !

What difference does it make if he stands up during ardaas and his hands are higher than the "chandni" ?

And perhaps some people can't afford more than just a little table with four small legs.

I remember when I was young, and we lived in a run-down apartment in New Jersey we had no table at all. We had a 15 inch tv on the floor and we would put the Guru Granth Sahib over it, and my mom used to read from it like that. My cousins could have donated a table over to us, they could have even donated a pure golden table to us, but would it make a difference?

And if you say, but Akhand Paht or other gatherings weren't performed there, what difference does that make? We used to have cousins and still read from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji like that.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241
Is that beadbi?

The campaign of "respect to Guruji" is to stop INTENTIONAL dishonor to Guruji. Such as taking the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to locations and having people dance around it while holding beer. That is intentional and known.

As far as someone standing up and the chaur sahib slightly over the "chandni" thats not intentional, I'm sure no one attempts to do that as to say their higher than Guruji.

As far as the space, can't you kindly talk to the owner of the home to create more space? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind that much..

sikh ji,

perhaps you are right ?? am i more paranoid than necessary ? reality check.

jarnail singh

Thinking on similar lines I agree with that as now as for me I consult Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on my computer and it is PDF form as one file so you cant perform all those things as we perform on the traditional saroop of guru ji but what matter is intention with which you approch guru ji and if it is right than every thing is fine

Dear Khalsa Ji,

The real respect to Sri Guru Granth Sahib is when we incorporate its teachings in our life. That is why Guru Sahibs gave it to us.

The way we keep it in Gurdwaras is for its proper up keep. I explain it why I say so.

Traditionally, Sri Guru Granth Sahib was and even now being read sitting on flat surface e.g. floor. It is ease if this heavy Granth is at an elevated postion so that the reader can read it effectively, that is why Manji is needed.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241

We keep pillow like item on either side, below the open Sri Guru Granth Sahib. This primarily reduces the stress on its binding thus prolongs its life. In fact I even do the same even when reading secular literature if the size of the book is large e.g. big dictionary or Atlas. That is why the pillows like things are needed.

We cover Sri Guru Granth Sahib with rumalas. This is to provide some sort of protection from fine mud that is often there in the air even during wind of moderate intensity. Incidently these rumalas act as paper weights also. They protect the pages from being torn by the flowing wind. That is why rumalas are needed.

This way we see that these features are have utility.

Chandani and Chour, in my opinion are frils. They are not necessary. They make Sri Guru Granth Sahib resemble like a deity. There is no need of these unless the individual wants to its reverence to the Akaar of the Granth. I revere more the Nirakaar part of of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, which is Sikhi (teachings) that is enshirined in it.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

Amarpal ji,


Thanks for showing how NOT to make, hence consider Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji an idol which is only good for bowing and parrot reading but a gateway to SAT which can only be obtained by studying and thus using the tools bestowed upon us through GURBANI, thanks to our visionary teachers.

Tejwant

I am really saddened regarding the issues that are taking place in the sikh society today.

We are not going to last as a religion for very long if we carry on like this. We have started making rediciulous rules at adhoc times(alienating the youth). The true fact that the issue has arisen is due to the gurdwara's losing money to rogue granthi's.

I am a very spiritual sikh but i do my own interpertations according to what my heart tells me is right. As guru nanak made his opinon on issues regarding giving water to the moon and praying east to mecca. i believe that the sikhs are wrong for preaching such unacceptable rules. What happened for the last 300 years!! why is it so important now?? Why make big and expensive temples when you can spend the money taking care of the community. Build a sports centre encourage children into sports.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241

the gurdwara/granthi(in india and UK) seem like the new age catholic church where people are out for their own good. In India if they realise you are from the abroad they sideline the locals for you. Here in the UK all the rich people control the temples.

My recent experiences about granthi's in Hmv looking at porn videos and stealing money from Akhand paths and perving at woman at gurdwara. Has alienated me more and more from going to the temple, i feel more righteous praying from home.

If we dont watch out we will not have many sikhs left in the world. The next generation will not care as they will be disillusioned. The young kids are not stupid they know what goes on even though they dont seem to care too much.

Why dont the gurdwara care about the sikh society, taking the kids off the street and helping the poor and suffering. Why waste the time and effort of the 40 sikhs who went on rampage in Slough. Whereas they can spend their time minding the schools where young girls are put on drugs and then put for prostitution. There is a bigger emphasis on why the 40 sikhs went on rampage in Slough and that is MONEY.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241

That is the view of me and of all the young people i have talked to. I feel Sickened that someone special day got spoilt because of this false pretence.

I agree that the current state of affairs is definitly due to the gurdwara's lack of care and attention to thier own communities. The have marginalised their own sangat to build larger gurdwaras and so their own sangat had become lost and have no unserstanding of their own faith. But this doesn not give them an excuse to make a mockery of it for the sake of show.

Dear Punj Pyara.

I have been noting the work of this campaign for a bit and as far as I have seen/heard/understood. THEY are the ones sticking up for the community. The venue/organiser in question has had repeated requests not to take Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to inappropriate locations, and several peaceful protests have been conducted previously, and they were even congratulated by several of the function attendees for doing the right thing!

The biased articles in the major papers go as as far as to fabricate things and you should not be so quick to believe everything you read. From what I understand, there was no violence or scuffle, no one was thrown to the floor and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was handed over in a peaceful manner. The police were present during the whole thing.

It must be noted that several attempts were made to compromise and perform the anand karaj at a local gurdwara at the Respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's expense, but they refused.

Additionally, most of the 40 people (young, old, men and women) came from many miles away and none had anything to gain in terms on money.

What do you define as a special day? For the people in question the special day seems to be, read some lines from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, run around and do the laavan so they can get the saroop out and party on! They have no idea what a deep and spiritual commitment an anand karaj is. For them it's just another ritual to finish as quickly as possible before the reception. Their respect to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was such that they ended up performing the wedding from a gutka instead of maharaaj, rather than give up on any of their partying!

If parties are so important, then there is a civil marriage court around the corner. What was the need of performing a "show" ceremony, since it seems to have no significance in their life? It was because of this that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was taken from them.


Sorry for the rant.

Gursharan Singh

My argument to you is:

Look at the workings of the inhouse of gurdwara before you can look at society and its portral of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In a gurdwara we need to show consideration towards what is right and what is wrong. We know for a fact how much fighting goes on when the voting takes place at the gurdwara. All the dodgy granthi's and rude people that sit around the gurdwara gossiping about what is happening in the local community.

Please, please dont tell me that these people are showing any respect for the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. when i was little, people used to go to the gurdwara and it was such a wonderful community feel. People were so happy with each other, they dressed up nicely spent the whole Sunday morning doing seva and listening to path. I loved the feeling, now it is all commercialised.

I respect all peoples wishes and i have been to the gurdwara when a wedding has taken hours to perform, where the couple have perfomed kirtan after the lavan. I have been to a wedding where the lavan have been finished within an hour. If the congreation spent the whole hour in deep mediation and respect of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji i would rather perfer this than to sitting down for 5 hours when your mind is drifting off to other things.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241

i want there to be a whole spectrum of sikhs. From religious Gur-sikhs(Amrit) to others that use the teachings of sikhism for their daily life. Please do not marginalise the people that are not highly religious.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241

It is fair that a comprimise had tried to be reached, but it is not a widely known fact before the papers actually published the news. The vast amount of society will think we are worse than the muslims(whereas we are more tolerant to all a persons beliefs).

I have a daughter and she attends CofE school because i believe a key principle of sikhism is respect and tolerance to all people. Please don't make it harder for the next generation of sikhs to accept Sikhism. If my daughter wanted to get married in the middle of the countyside with the blessing of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji when she grows up, she should be able to. Dont make the failings of a small minority to reflect the hardline attititudes of Sikh people.

If you ever saw me in real life you would never expect me to be writing in a forum. But the lack of information to the community and tolerance that the sikh religion is showing is highly upsetting.

I'm sure the 40 sevadaars who performed this are not out to hound and marginalise the less religious portions of the community.
As I understand from them, many attempts were made at contacting them and helping them understand, but no quarter was given.
The taking of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was the "final straw", because they made no attempt to understand or compromise.

Respect and tolerance, as you say, are of utmost importance, gurbani stresses this time and time again.
But what respect and tolerance can people have for other faiths if they don't even have any towards their own?

They're not running around destroying peoples lives, and there are very few cases like this which come up.
They are just just trying to show those that if you want to be a Sikh, at least try to act like one.
Their target was not the really the wedding party but the corrupt organiser who continues to unshamedly "rent" Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji out.

Incidentally there is an Akal Takht Hukamnama explicitly stating that no weddings should take place outside of a Gurdwara.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241


The media knew full well exactly what happened, but they were out for their pint of blood. I mean what better way to sell papers?
Ever since the Behzti play, they just look for a chance to pounce on our community.
The wording of every single article seemed to indicate a large mob rushing in, leaving destruction and havoc in thier wake.
This clearly wasn't the case, but the truth wouldn't make a good headline, would it?

What about all the good stuff that's been happening lately? I haven't seen a word in any papers about that.

What about the large peaceful 1984 rally/march that happened in London?
What about the constant campaigning by the Sikh Federation against the turban ban in France?
What about the Sikh lobby day, which will probably be attended by many of the Respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji campaigners, to promote Sikh issues to government ministers?

nobody hears about any of these...

Though I do agree with you on many issues, the points which you have brought up ultimately point back to the sangat.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1241
Gurdwaras can only turn into runaway money grabbing machines if the sangat let it or don't care enough to stop it.
At the end of a day, a granthi is not a priest, just another sevadaar, and it's the sangat's duty to take responsibility for their own gurdwara.
Even a dodgy management committee can be got rid of, if the people care enough to do anything about it.
And that's the crux of the matter, many people don't care about religion, and don't want to know. So the problem gets worse.
It's easy to say something is wrong, but it takes a whole amount of courage to decide to do something about it.


It's with the actions of these sevadaars, that we can stop the rot from inside and make Gurdwaras an integral part of our community again.
It's only then, that we can provide a service to the whole spectrum of the Sikh community, that everyone can benefit from.

I have to say, not all gurdwaras are bad, actually the best ones are those which have no management committee at all, everyone is a sevadaar. no more, no less.

I live in the heart of Southall, but ever since I was little, we've always gone to a Gurdwara a few miles away.
I asked my father one day, why he chose this gurdwara rather than all the other closer ones.

His reply... "They have better principles and uphold the basic tenants of Sikhi."