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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 17-Nov-2004, 19:23 PM
Sher_Singh's Avatar Sher_Singh Sher_Singh is offline
 
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Question Same word, Different spelling

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Guru Fateh.

As I read Bani I have noticed one thing, as i am sure you all may have to. Why is it that in Gurmukhi, for one word there are different spellings???
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/1026-same-word-different-spelling.html

For example:

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026
The spelling of Nanak in some places it is spelt like nwnk
And in some places it is spelt like nwnku and nwnik

Why is this?? They are the same word and I know there is a reason for this. Is it injunction with the context it is written in or is their another reason?? I have seen this occur with many, many other words in Bani.

Could someone please shed some light onto this. Thank you.

Guru Fateh.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 17-Nov-2004, 20:28 PM
Arvind's Avatar Arvind Arvind is offline
 
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Re: Same word, Different spelling

Sher Singh ji,

As you know there are different fonts like arial, times roman etc, similarly for gurumukhi writings on PC, different fonts exist such as gurbaniakhar, lipiheavy etc. And they have got different code working for them in the background, hence the difference in spelling. Actually, such kind of words, which are giving different spellings to you are meant to be seen by highlighting those contents, and then viewing those in a particular gurmukhi related font. That way, there wont be any concern as you mentioned.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026

Hope that helps.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 17-Nov-2004, 20:35 PM
Sher_Singh's Avatar Sher_Singh Sher_Singh is offline
 
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Re: Same word, Different spelling

Sevadaar Singh Ji,

What i am reffering to is the Gurbani itself. If you read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you will notice that the spelling of the word Nanak is different in places.

In some places it is spelt - "nanna" "kanna" "nanna" "kakka"

And in some places it is spelt - "nanna" "kanna" "nanna" "kakka" "aunkar"
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026

And - "nanna" "kanna" "nanna" "sihari" "kakka"

I am not reffering to fonts etc. I am reffering to the actual Gurmukhi Script as you read Gurbani.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026

What I want to know is why there are different speeling for the same word in Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

I hope that cleared my question up a bit.

Guru Fateh.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 17-Nov-2004, 20:41 PM
Arvind's Avatar Arvind Arvind is offline
 
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Re: Same word, Different spelling

Thanks for clearing up the point Sher Singh ji. I got your point. This kind of thing like sihari and aunkar at the last akhar, has got special meaning, which I used to hear from Kathavachaks but now dont remember that. I will try to get hold of more information about Guru Sahib ji's vocabulary. Only thing, I may say, those are not different names for same Nanak, however those are different ways of sentence formation in the Guru Sahib ji's vocabulary.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026

Thanks.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 17-Nov-2004, 20:46 PM
Sher_Singh's Avatar Sher_Singh Sher_Singh is offline
 
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Re: Same word, Different spelling

Thank you Sevadaar Singh Ji. Please could you clear this up for me as soon as possible. I am greatful for the seva you will provide.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026

Guru Fateh.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 17-Nov-2004, 23:42 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Same word, Different spelling

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh.

Off hand this use of aunkar and siharee in GURBANI is the unique "gurbani grammar"...

The main NANAK ( nanna, kanna, nanna, kakka ) is Guru Nanak Ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026

The second Nan(i)k nanna, kanna, siharee, kakka..is used to denote NANAK NE.
Example in simple Punjabi: Eh paani kihnee dohlia hai ? Who spilled this water ?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026
The answer in Punjabi would be: Nan(ik)...meaning NANAK NE panee dohliah.In English this SIHAREE would be :"BY"...This water was spilled BY Nanak.
Gurbani tuk" sach naam kartar su dirrh nan(i)k sangrihiuh... THe True Naam of KARTAR was DDirrh revealed BY nanak
The use of the aunkar at the end of certain words comes due to transition of Sanskrit vocabulary and sanskrti grammar into Punjabi...the aunkar denotes soemthing grammarians call Accusative Singular/Plural. The aunkar can mean "FROM"...Simple example as above: Question - Eh paani kis ton dulliah ? Who spilled this water... Answer: Nanna, kanna,nannna kakakk(aunkar) means: Nanak ton The Water got spilled from Nanak ( Accusative Verb)..

The whole thing is very very complicated. IF you can do get hold of the Book: Gurbani Grammar by Prof sahib Singh ( it is in Punjabi). It is a 450 page book that explains all the Grammar used in gurbani that makes GURBANI unique in Punjabi Literature. Noteworthy is that our Gurus used "punjabi Grammar" to change words borrowed from Sanskrti/Farsee etc.

Before Prof sahib Singh came out with his GURU DARPAN and proper systematic explanation of the UNIQUE Grammar used in GURBANI, it was generally thought that the siharee aunkars used in Gurbani were "superflous". In fact Macauliffe went to the Head Priests and Gyanis of his time to elarn why these were used in Gurbani and the answer he got was" we dont know...they are just there, we suppose. Worse those Groups and Jathas claiming to be the original teachers of Gurbani were stressing on Saying Gurnani as it is Written...stressing on PRONOUNCING the Siharees and Aunkars as and when they ocurred.... for example SHAH(aunkar) is PROPER NOUN denoting SHAH a moneylender/banker/rich man..reference to WAHEGURU..is to be pronounced SHAH..and NOT as "SHAH UH" ... The word SHAH_HU has NO MEANING and doesnt EXIST...and it is a travesty to pronounce it like that..YET thousands of paathis who have learnt paath from traditionals read this Tuk (just before Slok mah Novaan begins) as SHAH_HU with a LONG drawn out HAEK... SHAH_huuuuuu... similarly SATGU(i)R means SATGUR NE..BY SATGUR.....and to pronounce it as SATGUREH is wrong as NO such word exists and it has no meaning.

Now that the Gurbani Grammar has become common knowledge, and Prof sahib singh's Darpan has made things very clear, the TRADITIONAL Groups are also changing their TUNE..and saying they knew all along about this VIAKARAN !! Strange but true ??? IF they really descend direct from Guruu Gobind Singh Ji ( Heard Gurbani AArths direct from guru ji).. and knew this all along then why teach wrong pronounciations and tell macauliffe that these aunkars siharees are superflous.

Jarnail Singh
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 18-Nov-2004, 00:12 AM
Prabjyot Kaur's Avatar Prabjyot Kaur Prabjyot Kaur is offline
 
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Re: Same word, Different spelling

Quote:
IF you can do get hold of the Book: Gurbani Grammar by Prof sahib Singh ( it is in Punjabi). It is a 450 page book that explains all the Grammar used in gurbani that makes GURBANI unique in Punjabi Literature.
The book is reffered as 'Gurbani Viakaran'. Read Professor Sahib Singh ji's punjabi Viakhia of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji at http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/index.html
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Old 18-Nov-2004, 02:22 AM
Arvind's Avatar Arvind Arvind is offline
 
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Re: Same word, Different spelling

Gyani ji,

That s an awesome piece of information. Proper pronunciation itself reveals meaning a few times. I think, Santhia is the right word for this. I believe, I am going to look for such words when I read Guru Sahib ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1026

Prabjyot ji, thanks for providing the link. I am sure, this is going to help us a lot.

Best Regards.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 18-Nov-2004, 15:40 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabjyot Kaur
The book is reffered as 'Gurbani Viakaran'. Read Professor Sahib Singh ji's punjabi Viakhia of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji at http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/index.html
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Yes Bhen Ji Prabjyot kaur Jio, you are right. By the way I love the viakhia of Sri Sukhmani Sahib Ji that you are presenting on another thread. This si the type of work we need to present to the Youth so that real UNDERSTANDING of Gurbani is empahasised instead of just matha teking and respect. Please do continue till completion and May waheguru Ji Bless you.

jarnail Singh
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