Was Guru Nanak God?

Amardeep · 03-07-2006, 12:13 AM

i just got home from the local Gurdwara, and there there was a sikh from England who claimed that Guru Nanak was God himself.... i thought he was ridiculous and went home to research and found these verses.

Page 136, Line 10
ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਆਰਾਧਿਆ ਦਰਗਹ ਸਚਿ ਖਰੇ ॥
हरि गुरु पूरा आराधिआ दरगह सचि खरे ॥
har gur pooraa aaraaDhi-aa dargeh sach kharay.
Those who meditate on the Perfect Guru, the Lord-Incarnate-they are judged true in the Court of the Lord.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Page 306, Line 14
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਫਲ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥੨॥
नानक सेवा करहु हरि गुर सफल दरसन की फिरि लेखा मंगै न कोई ॥२॥
naanak sayvaa karahu har gur safal darsan kee fir laykhaa mangai na ko-ee. ||2||
O Nanak, serve the Guru, the Lord Incarnate; the Blessed Vision of His Darshan is profitable, and in the end, you shall not be called to account. ||2||
Guru Ram Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

and there are propbably also others..

it this true ? was Guru Nanak and the others God?.

if if they were, who were they praying to? If their prayers were just God showing how a prayer should be done, it means that their Prayers were empty rituals as God can not pray to God, since there is only One God.

The Guru's slept, ate, had children etc..does this mean that God is limited as a human being who needs sleep, rest, etc??

i cant make this work...seriously..how could Guru Nanak have been God?

Archived_Member1 · #**121** (**permalink**) 25-03-2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namjap

Aad Ji and Pk70 Ji,

Let me describe a little about 3 different communities living in Bangkok. I stayed in Thailand for 10 years and this is my feedback. Normally two types of Gurdwara Functions, one is the social gathering and the other simpler and more spiritually inclined sangat. These 3 communities, all wearing turbans are Mainstream Sikhism, Namdharis and Radha Soamis. They all go to each others worship centres on social functions. But Namdhari never goes to Radhasoami and neither do RS go to Namdharis for spiritual satsangs. Sikhs hardly go to RS or Namdharis' satsangs, but RS and Namdharis do come to Gurdwara for satsang and Katha/Kirtan sessions regularly.

What do you make out of this ? All I can say is that we, mainstreamers, are the most tolerant of all. I have personally seen Satguru Jagjit Singh Ji come to Gurdwara, matha-tek and sit amongst the sangat like a commoner and listen to lectures. Accompanied by many other Namdharis.

my ignorant opinion would be that bangkok is not the best place to make judgments on the entire sikh quom, as the population is relatively small and homogeneous (most sikhs in thailand are of similar backgrounds - ie: businessmen).

let's hear observations about interactions between the communities in Punjab where the sheer numbers and greater diversity make the observation more useful.

pk70 · #**122** (**permalink**) 25-03-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namjap

Aad Ji and Pk70 Ji,

Let me describe a little about 3 different communities living in Bangkok. I stayed in Thailand for 10 years and this is my feedback. Normally two types of Gurdwara Functions, one is the social gathering and the other simpler and more spiritually inclined sangat. These 3 communities, all wearing turbans are Mainstream Sikhism, Namdharis and Radha Soamis. They all go to each others worship centres on social functions. But Namdhari never goes to Radhasoami and neither do RS go to Namdharis for spiritual satsangs. Sikhs hardly go to RS or Namdharis' satsangs, but RS and Namdharis do come to Gurdwara for satsang and Katha/Kirtan sessions regularly.

What do you make out of this ? All I can say is that we, mainstreamers, are the most tolerant of all. I have personally seen Satguru Jagjit Singh Ji come to Gurdwara, matha-tek and sit amongst the sangat like a commoner and listen to lectures. Accompanied by many other Namdharis.

namjapji

As you have observed, I used strong words, I should have used constrained language.
I must applaud you for having big heart too, that is an initial tool for Sikhi.
Here is the problem I want to share with you. During my recent trip to Punjab, I have seen pictures of Nanaidevi in the houses of Sikhs who go to Gurdawara regularly. A Sikh girl who runs her own business in Chandigarh has pictures of Guru Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh ji and Gnesh in her office” Why don’t you remove pictures of Guru Sahiban,?Gnesh alone can make you rich! I said to her. She just smiled. I have noticed Sikhs having tied a red cotton thread around their wrists. I asked one of them why he had to do that. Didn’t Guru Nanak set us free from these things? His answer floored me” they are all the same, Guru, Ram Krishna Devtas” namjap ji, have you heard about a slow death of a religion. This is it. They infiltrate into a religion to damage it. They act as if they respected all your faith. Do you think truly they respect our straight principles? NO. Their persuasion comes under disguise. Guru Gobind Singh ji kept Sikhs on right path while having very good friends from other faiths, Isn’t it amazing Pir Budhu Sahib ji honoured Guru ji by sacrificing his sons for Guru’s cause. Big heart and open-mindedness played a vital role in harmony of the society then and it does it now too; however, we must recognize the intentions of non Sikhs.
Regarding forgiveness, I cannot agree with you more than that but here is a troubling question. Have they accepted their mistake and started honouring Guru Granth sahib ji as only eternal Guru? If not, forgiveness can be used in another form, ignore them, I feel Sikhs are doing so. I am with you on some points but also disagree with you on some points as well.

namjap · #**123** (**permalink**) 25-03-2008, 09:18 PM

Pk70 Ji,

In Malaysia, 80% of Sehajdhari Sikhs have devi devta photos and altars in their homes. Most of my kirtan students are from Sehajdhari families. They're Sikhs only by birth and not from the Rehat Maryada part except for the Kara. They smoke and drink like any other non-Sikh.

It is so difficult to break the tradition which they're used to. Kirtan is the only thing with which they connect to Sikhism. Children are sent for Punjabi classes and we teachers promote the children to sing on stage. If left to the Giani/Granthi alone, they would never have a chance to come forward.

Teaching children Sikh principles will of course take root but the percentage will remain small. I don't think so that Sikhs by birth have really changed since Sikhism started. Any feedback from you and others might be helpful.

pk70 · #**124** (**permalink**) 25-03-2008, 10:12 PM

namjap ji
I am amazed to know that. And, you bring them to Kirtan and introduce to them Gurbani. What a wonderful job you are blessed to do. May Waheguru be with you always in helping them out!!!! Thanks.

Harjas Kaur Khalsa · #**125** (**permalink**) 26-03-2008, 10:04 AM

pk70 wrote:

Quote:

Didn’t Guru Nanak set us free from these things? His answer floored me” they are all the same, Guru, Ram Krishna Devtas” namjap ji, have you heard about a slow death of a religion. This is it. They infiltrate into a religion to damage it. They act as if they respected all your faith. Do you think truly they respect our straight principles? NO. Their persuasion comes under disguise. Guru Gobind Singh ji kept Sikhs on right path while having very good friends from other faiths, Isn’t it amazing Pir Budhu Sahib ji honoured Guru ji by sacrificing his sons for Guru’s cause. Big heart and open-mindedness played a vital role in harmony of the society then and it does it now too; however, we must recognize the intentions of non Sikhs.

I honor the wisdom and truth in these words. Thank you ji for sharing.