The Gurus' Wives?

Narayanjot, Roger, and Tejwant jios
Much to say! Firstly; I was not implying the you, Narayanjot ji, were getting 'heated'; I actually picked that one up from Tejwant ji, as I know there's a sore side to many people of India/Punjab, regarding rich westerners 'stealing your women', and I thought there might have been a hint of percieved disrespect in Roger jis inquery.
Secondly; Tejwant ji, I appreciate your statements regarding this world and it's laws - as I've had some Bad People break many, many of them (My Rights as a Supervisor to not have people I fired arainge for me to meet FBI agents sisters, who steal from me, then set about 'messing up my life'; my Right to apply for my Disability Pension, without having the former mess it up - while telling everyone I'm a 'thief' and an 'addict', because SHE stole from ME, and they all plotted my demise together; get the Idea? That three people were killed, by the Ku Klux Klan - who the FBI is Tasked with protecting ALL OF US from - because of all of the above......PHEW! If I broke some rules - or even some laws - would that be 'bad'?) in order to get back at me for a number of actions that were all 'good', but made 'bad people' unhappy.
I come to SPN because I find Kindered Spirits here - people I can talk to, people whose Rights, along with my own, I've been fighting for for many, many years; as a large part of the justification that my adversaries have employed to gain support for their actions against me, and against civil society in general, has been based on the fact that I've 'Refused Jesus', that I, "Took some kind of DRUG, had a HALUCINATION, and (again) LEFT JESUS' - as I'm an ex-Catholic Buddhist, and the Ku Klux Klan hates Catholics, so they had a reall 'good time' whipping up these kinds to mess with me at the same time that they were!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-gurus/28916-the-gurus-wives.html
Forgive me my own Sins, Oh World, and I will have Justice For Us All Yet!
You See; I'm right when I say that it's both a 'Blessing AND a Curse' to have garnered some insight into the True Nature of it all.
Thirdly: I do not mean to mock - let along question - the Shabad Guru; I would not be, as you say Narayanjot ji, "interested" in Sikhism, if it were not a Good Book filled Real Wisdom that will show it's readers the True Path.
I just don't like overly Dogmatic Practices - as, most of the time, this leads to tyranny in 'The Name of God' - and, also, as I've said before; if YOU had had the kind of Experience that you cab read abouy MY having had in my Introducing Myself posting - if YOU had had a WHITE STREAK appear in your hair, after a deeply meaningful TM - would YOU hold the WORDS written in a Book; be it the Shabad Guru, the Bible, the Koran, or the Avesta; or would you hold what you believe Waheguru ji revealed to you IN PERSON (so to speak) more sacred?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=28916
Think about it! I've been pondering this for almost 20 years!
Best Regards, JimRinX!

 
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JimRinX ji

Thanks for your clarification. I myself felt there was some disrespect initially, however, Roger ji has clarified the reasons for and nature of his need for information.

Probably the lingering thought I have is that Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not represent "dogma" as scriptures like The Book of Leviticus, the Manu Smriti, or others seem to do. There are virtually no orders from above, but rather descriptions of how to find the path to the Goal. And the goal is not to receive a heavenly reward or avoid the pain of hell. The goal is to find bliss by realizing one's True Identity with the grace of the Guru. A very tender scripture that holds that we are fundamentally good, but that we can be led astray. And that is the tragedy for those who have persecuted you. They have not heard this message -- or perhaps they did and decided to ignore it.

• Was what the Guru's stood up for religion or were they standing up for the low castes and the down trodden man?
• Was 1984 really about religion or about politics?

I think you need to read some history.

Why would it matter?

This is why I was puzzled with the question.

A Sikh does not crave Mukhti, or higher spiritual states. He just longs to be intune (one with) God. Not be a slave to the 5 thieves and let patience, kindness etc be his/her virtues.

Randip ji
Yes, you are quite right; a Sikh, or any other believer/adherent to the concepts ('Laws'?) of Dharma and Karma, is; if they are true to themselves, and therefore to others; always going to be a self-less person, concerned more with the wellbeing of others, than that of themselves; as WE know that if everyone practices these beliefs with equal fervor, no one will want for anything - all will know peace and harmoniousness.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=28916
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=28916
I was in no way implying that a Sikh - Gurus Wife, or humble cobbler - would 'seek' Mukhti; that's why I appologized for being so immodest as to even mention the idea that I might have been fortunate (and cursed!) enough to have done so (I only say what I do to try and help others; not to 'brag', as spometimes they ask, you know); I just think that a Guru would have a Happier and more fulfilling marriage, if his Wife had achieved that level of enlightenment!
See? I was just being compassionate! I wouldn't want to see an unhappily married Guru, after all!
Narayanjot ji
I know what you're saying! That's because I've not only been reading what you quote me, but also because I read 'An Introduction to Sikhism', and was very, very impressed by the Beauty of it all.
It's odd, you know; I was just waiting in line to eat at a kind of Baptist Gurdwara, and there was a guy SHOUTING 'Fire and Brimstone' - then he began to eulogize about how those who don't want to tick off Jesus NEVER SHOUT AT ANYONE!
On the other hand, I know a Mennonite Pastor who is just the opposite; and he likes to make jokes about people like the 'shouter', and how they've strayed from the path.
I told him that theres 'reincarnation' in John 3:1-16; for though most Christians only focus on the last bit - the "He whosoever believeth in Me, will (go to Heaven) - the previous bits certainly sound like an explaination of Birth, in Water (repeatedly, even), followed - if you've achieved an ambiguous sounding goal (WE know what THAT is) - by 'Birth, in Spirit'.
I may 'convert' (their biggest fear!) them yet!
Yes, yes, WE do have a point; those of us whose beliefs are derived from the Dharma!

JimRinX ji

Mennonites are cool people. You know that Amish people fall into that lineage of faith, however the Amish are extremely orthodox and literal in their interpretation of the Bible. At one point a group of Mennonites broke out to form the modern congregations. Today they occupy a spectrum in terms of how "plain" or "fancy" they may be. However, their message is one of advocacy for the downtrodden and they work diligently to improve the lot of people who live in the poorest areas, city and countryside. Yes, you are right. They preach kindness and service. I really do not know very much about their religious beliefs, but do know they are social activists and find their own bliss in doing for others.

According to science we are reincarnated whether we like it or not. Our molecules will go on to form something else. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, but simply changes form.

As for Karma, that is simply Newtons Law that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I wasn't thinking you implied anything about the Guru's wife, I was merely asking the question whether it matters whether the Guru's wife achieved Mukhti? For a lot of us we wander through life alone and when we meet the right person we feel complete. It feels like we have achieved Mukhti? Maybe that was the case for the Guru's.

Maybe that is why Guru Nanak placed so much emphasis on the life of a householder? Maybe that is what makes us complete?

Any views?

Randip ji
Many views! Firstly; I did not think you were criticising me - though I did think that Roger ji was taking some heat, so I was coming to his defense; as I, like many people from less wealthy parts of the world, think the whole 'mail order bride' thing is wrong, and I thought he'd 'touched a nerve'.
Next: You sound JUST LIKE ME! Applying Newtons Laws - or, in my case, Maxwells Thermodynamics, to the concepts of Karma and Reincarnation! I've always said that the Samsara Realm (that of Physical Form - or, the 'Birth, in Water' - versus the 'Birth, in Spirit' {once we've achieved True Enlightenment'}, to quote John 3:something or the other) is a 'Bi-Polar Array'; and I've always argued with Atheist Scientists Types that The Soul, The Clear Light, The (fill in the blank) is no more unlikely, just because it cannot be seen or meassured, than is the fact that I cannot 'see' the force that prevents me from 'seeing' the electromagnetic force field that prevents me from forcing the North Poles of two magnets together; as it is also this very same force that prevents my fingers, which are mostly nothingness, from passing right through this keyboard!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=28916
As far as the Gurus Wife, it's as I said; could any Husband and Wife truly be 'soul mates' if they were not 'like souls'?
I do, if only because I'm getting older, and have been being kept out of the dating scene (due to the Pill that I was forced to go back on, after quiting them to switch to bhang - for my Chronic Pain), also think that we are not, as you say, "complete" without that special someone in our lives! Gurus, too!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=28916
I hope this stirs some thought!
Best regards, JimRinX!