Benefits of Kirtan

aad0002 · #11 (**permalink**) 21-03-2007, 09:15 AM

Surinder Kaur ji

No one could have described more clearly than you the gift of kirtan, for it brings love to the heart. Why? Kirtan is felt and brings peace to the mind and leaves no room whatsoever in the mind for the noise of the day.

No question what-so-ever.

With thanks

sahilmakkar1983 · #12 (**permalink**) 21-03-2007, 03:08 PM

Great paaji great
simply great...
this is true.... without eating, praising is fake..
without seeing GOD. his praise will not take us anywhere..
thats why NAAMDEV JI SAYS
ਜਬ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਬ ਗਾਵਾ ॥
जब देखा तब गावा ॥
jab daykhaa tab gaavaa.
When I see Him, I sing His Praises.

ਤਉ ਜਨ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਪਾਵਾ ॥੧॥
तउ जन धीरजु पावा ॥१॥
ta-o jan Dheeraj paavaa. ||1||
Then I, his humble servant, become patient. ||1||

TRUE BHAGATS sang after seeing GOD.. not like us..

AGAIN SAID AT PAGE NO 1113
ਜਬ ਦੇਖਾਂ ਪਿਰੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਰਸਿ ਰਵਾ ਰਾਮ ॥
जब देखां पिरु पिआरा हरि गुण रसि रवा राम ॥
jab daykhaaN pir pi-aaraa har gun ras ravaa raam.
When I see my Beloved Husband Lord, I chant the Lord's Glorious Praises with love.

ਮੇਰੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਵਿਗਾਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਸਚੁ ਨਿਤ ਚਵਾ ਰਾਮ ॥
मेरै अंतरि होइ विगासु प्रिउ प्रिउ सचु नित चवा राम ॥
mayrai antar ho-ay vigaas pari-o pari-o sach nit chavaa raam.
My inner being blossoms forth; I continually utter, "Pri-o! Pri-o! Beloved! Beloved!

ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਚਵਾ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਬਦਿ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੇਖੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਏ ॥
प्रिउ चवा पिआरे सबदि निसतारे बिनु देखे त्रिपति न आवए ॥
pari-o chavaa pi-aaray sabad nistaaray bin daykhay taripat na aav-ay.
I speak of my Dear Beloved, and through the Shabad, I am saved. Unless I can see Him, I am not satisfied.

ਸਬਦਿ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਤ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਏ ॥
सबदि सीगारु होवै नित कामणि हरि हरि नामु धिआवए ॥
sabad seegaar hovai nit kaaman har har naam Dhi-aav-ay.
That soul-bride who is ever adorned with the Shabad, meditates on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.

ਦਇਆ ਦਾਨੁ ਮੰਗਤ ਜਨ ਦੀਜੈ ਮੈ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਦੇਹੁ ਮਿਲਾਏ ॥
दइआ दानु मंगत जन दीजै मै प्रीतमु देहु मिलाए ॥
da-i-aa daan mangat jan deejai mai pareetam dayh milaa-ay.
Please bless this beggar, Your humble servant, with the Gift of Mercy; please unite me with my Beloved.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਧਿਆਈ ਹਮ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਟਹੁ ਘੁਮਾਏ ॥੨॥
अनदिनु गुरु गोपालु धिआई हम सतिगुर विटहु घुमाए ॥२॥
an-din gur gopaal Dhi-aa-ee ham satgur vitahu ghumaa-ay. ||2||
Night and day, I meditate on the Guru, the Lord of the World; I am a sacrifice to the True Guru. ||2||

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archived_member2

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Suppose a person eats ripened mangoes for the first time. He feels like praising its taste. The words and melody he uses to express it are Keertan. The true Keertan is the result of true Simran.

I have heard people reciting slokas about the taste of mangoes, referring even the page and line number with commas and full-stops. A truthful person expresses his experience as it flows through his existence, not as they write it somewhere.

Spiritually poor are those people who miss the original taste of God's Naam Simran but go on imitating others. In Kaljug they pretend to know while singing borrowed songs. This is the falsehood (Koorh).

Some rare are blessed also. Listening them, is joyous. Rishis sang Vedas, Upnishads and Puranas their way. The Gurus sang Truth their way. The Truth is the same though.

God wishes to hear Truth from us all. Strange, the preacher mind trains many to put a parrot recorder on.

God created everyone unique to express His Truth in a unique way. This becomes possible flawlessly only after receiving True Naam as Gurprasaad.

Archived_member2

sahilmakkar1983 · #13 (**permalink**) 21-03-2007, 07:10 PM

U r very true
koi shak nahi
Vaheguru da ehi hukam he ki ... sacha naam prapat karo.. te ode te chalde jao

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archived_member2

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Suppose a person eats ripened mangoes for the first time. He feels like praising its taste. The words and melody he uses to express it are Keertan. The true Keertan is the result of true Simran.

I have heard people reciting slokas about the taste of mangoes, referring even the page and line number with commas and full-stops. A truthful person expresses his experience as it flows through his existence, not as they write it somewhere.

Spiritually poor are those people who miss the original taste of God's Naam Simran but go on imitating others. In Kaljug they pretend to know while singing borrowed songs. This is the falsehood (Koorh).

Some rare are blessed also. Listening them, is joyous. Rishis sang Vedas, Upnishads and Puranas their way. The Gurus sang Truth their way. The Truth is the same though.

God wishes to hear Truth from us all. Strange, the preacher mind trains many to put a parrot recorder on.

God created everyone unique to express His Truth in a unique way. This becomes possible flawlessly only after receiving True Naam as Gurprasaad.

Archived_member2

sahilmakkar1983 · #14 (**permalink**) 21-03-2007, 07:20 PM

Va paaji va
ehi such he
ehi such he
bus ehi such he.. no body knows true simran..
and yet they are talking about it.
Simran is ongoing process... and it is unspoken word

KIRTAM NAAM KATHE TERE JIBHA.. SATNAM TERA PARA PURBALA
means :: our toungue recites the false names.. so our toungue cant say the true name. so it is unspoken.. SATNAM is power.. is cosmic vibration going in every being as stated in this lines:::
ਗੁਪਤਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਕਲਜੁਗਿ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥
गुपता नामु वरतै विचि कलजुगि घटि घटि हरि भरपूरि रहिआ ॥
guptaa naam vartai vich kaljug ghat ghat har bharpoor rahi-aa.
The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is hidden, but it is pervasive in the Dark Age. The Lord is totally pervading and permeating each and every heart.

ਨਾਮੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਤਿਨਾ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਜੋ ਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਭਜਿ ਪਇਆ ॥੨॥
नामु रतनु तिना हिरदै प्रगटिआ जो गुर सरणाई भजि पइआ ॥२॥
naam ratan tinaa hirdai pargati-aa jo gur sarnaa-ee bhaj pa-i-aa. ||2||
The Jewel of the Naam is revealed within the hearts of those who hurry to the Sanctuary of the Guru. ||2||

GURUFATEH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archived_member2

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Jatinder Ji wants further explanation of the curiosity raised "Who else is seeing Kaljug clearly than the Gurus?"
Only those whose conscious mind is now awakening by true Naam Simran may be aware of this.
GurbAnee says "simar simar simar gur apunaa so-i-aa manu jaagaa-ee." SGGS Ang 758-6 Soohee, Guru Ram Das

Kaur-1 Ji asked "Isnt Gurbani Keertan Naam jap - naam Simran?"
Whole GurbAnee is the result of Naam Jap. Hari Keertan is what Hari (God) incites in an individual by repeating His Naam. Simran or Jap of Naam or Gurshabad is the beginning and never ending Truth.
One who does Simran first (bhalkay uth har naam Dhi-aavai), reaches the state of DhyAn. Then his activities become singing Keertan (fir charhai divas gurbaanee gaavai).
Gurdev is explaining here clearly the difference.

Surinder Ji wrote "The kirtan that we do with Jori Baaja and tabla made of material goods, or we listen to recorded kirtan-Wakes up our mind."
In my view, it is the Guru's message that has soothing effect in calling our mind to awake. It is not the Baajaa, Tabla, tape recorder nor the music. One can hear Joree, Baajaa and the tune without Guru's Words and feel the difference.

Quote "Kirtan and reading Bani with one pointed concentration works on bringing up the sense of detachment(Vairaag)."
Gurdev never suggested reading Baanee or Keertan as the technique to bring up detachments. Please provide one reference if possible. I will be grateful.
Gurdev is explaining often that singing and reading anything without being blessed with Naam, is going astray.

Quote "We sing glorifications of our Guru and Waheguru, alone or with others. i guess that is NEEDED, isn't it......"
Sure. Nevertheless, come to know true Simran first, the most precious Naam Gurdev is suggesting.

quote "Singing Gods praises(kirtan) make us stop thinking about other stuff, this is the best way to make our thought process tranquil."
This is the deflective tactic of clever mind. One is now with thoughts analyzing Keertan. The true way to transcend the thought level is true Simran.

Quote "One point to be noted- Dhan Dhan Guru Sahibaan has arranged all the Bani under ragas and even taal(rhythm) is also specified for every Shabad. WHY????"
Please provide one reference from the Gurus where they asked us to sing their Hymns in RAgAs and Taals.
I have found many Vaaks from Gurdev warning about singers who sing in RAgAs with Taals.

Quote "Gurmukho let us not forget Kirtan is Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Sache Paatshah di chalaaee hoi tradion……….."
Guru NAnak Dev Jee is not the only Gurdev who started the praise of Hari (Keertan). Hari Keertan is the flow without obstructions as the result of true Naam Simran.
Strange. Many pretend to imitate HIM.

Archived_member2

drkhalsa · #15 (**permalink**) 21-03-2007, 09:46 PM

Respected Archived_member2 ji

Thanks for wonderfull post as always and thanks for answering queries

Respected Sahilmakkar ji

Quote:

bus ehi such he.. no body knows true simran..
and yet they are talking about it

I am trying to understand your post pls help.

Does this means that some Moorakh/Agiyani like me who havent met god /havent recieved Naam should just keep quite and speak nothing about God

Jatinder Singh

aad0002 · #16 (**permalink**) 22-03-2007, 02:28 AM

Archived_member2 ji

Also moorath, also unschooled in matters of Naam and Simran, I would ask you to consider my question.

How can a person know whether his/her understanding of the benefits of kirtan is authentic?

A short example from Christianity might help clarify my question. What is the true nature of the Holy Trinity? This question has provoked controversy among Christians over the centuries. Do Jesus, the incarnation of god, and the holy sprit emanate from a single godhead who is the all-knowing father-creator? Or are the father, the son and the holy ghost equal in relationship? Some religious thinkers will take a very scholarly approach and base their answer on scripture. Although they all use the same set of scriptures, they come to different conclusions (hence the Roman and Eastern churches). Other religious thinkers answer this question from the heart, using personal inspiration about the meaning of scripture to find an answer. Again, they also come to different conclusions. Many interpretations are possible.

I am noticing that there are two different approaches (scholarly or intuitive) to understand the benefits of Kirtan. Which is the better way for a devotee to follow? Or are both necessary?

Respectfully

aad0002 · #17 (**permalink**) 22-03-2007, 09:39 AM

Archived_member2 ji,

Thank you for your quick reply. And for sharing your perspective in such a clear way.

Respectfully

sahilmakkar1983 · #18 (**permalink**) 22-03-2007, 11:35 AM

No Drkhalsa... i m not saying dont sing.
everybody have right to talk about his/her father(GOD), but first see/meet father then say. without seeing??? lets try to understand what saints says about this thing..
but as sant naamdev ji in SGGS says
JAB DEKHA TAB GAVA , TO JAN DHEERAJ PAVA
means saints sang the glory of god after seeing him, and we are singing without seeing him.
But saints not only sang.. but also wrote the way to reach/see the GOD.
If we are singing the lines written by our great saints Naamdev, bhai gurudas, bulleshah, kabir, guru nanak dev ji and our gurus.. then first thing for what we should go for.. is to understand those lines..
WHAT they want to convey us through that lines.. and if u read gurubani carefully.. u will come to know that our great scriptures is clearly telling that WE CAN SEE GOD.. n there is way that GOES INSIDE HUMAN BODY. and it also tells the way to see.

THats all
Gurufateh

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkhalsa

Respected Archived_member2 ji

Thanks for wonderfull post as always and thanks for answering queries

Respected Sahilmakkar ji

I am trying to understand your post pls help.

Does this means that some Moorakh/Agiyani like me who havent met god /havent recieved Naam should just keep quite and speak nothing about God

Jatinder Singh

Surinder Kaur Cheema · #19 (**permalink**) 22-03-2007, 10:21 PM

Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji de Bachan in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji- Panna #54

isrIrwgu mhlw 1 ]
Awpy gux Awpy kQY Awpy suix vIcwru ]
Awpy rqnu priK qUM Awpy molu Apwru ]
swcau mwnu mhqu qUM Awpy dyvxhwru ]1]
hir jIau qUM krqw krqwru ]
ijau BwvY iqau rwKu qUM hir nwmu imlY Awcwru ]1] rhwau ]
Awpy hIrw inrmlw Awpy rMgu mjIT ]
Awpy moqI aUjlo Awpy Bgq bsITu ]
gur kY sbid slwhxw Git Git fITu AfITu ]2]
Awpy swgru boihQw Awpy pwru Apwru ]
swcI vwt sujwxu qUM sbid lGwvxhwru ]
infirAw fru jwxIAY bwJu gurU gubwru ]3]
AsiQru krqw dyKIAY horu kyqI AwvY jwie ]
Awpy inrmlu eyku qUM hor bMDI DMDY pwie ]
guir rwKy sy aubry swcy isau ilv lwie ]4]
hir jIau sbid pCwxIAY swic rqy gur vwik ]
iqqu qin mYlu n lgeI sc Gir ijsu Eqwku ]
ndir kry scu pweIAY ibnu nwvY ikAw swku ]5]
ijnI scu pCwixAw sy suKIey jug cwir ]
haumY iqRsnw mwir kY scu riKAw aur Dwir ]
jg mih lwhw eyku nwmu pweIAY gur vIcwir ]6]
swcau vKru lwdIAY lwBu sdw scu rwis ]
swcI drgh bYseI Bgiq scI Ardwis ]
piq isau lyKw inbVY rwm nwmu prgwis ]7]
aUcw aUcau AwKIAY khau n dyiKAw jwie ]
jh dyKw qh eyku qUM siqguir dIAw idKwie ]
joiq inrMqir jwxIAY nwnk shij suBwie ]8]3]

And our SatGuru is- Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

forgive me please

drkhalsa · #20 (**permalink**) 22-03-2007, 11:45 PM

Dear Sahil Makkar Ji

thanks again for your post

Quote:

WE CAN SEE GOD.. n there is way that GOES INSIDE HUMAN BODY. and it also tells the way to see.

it would be helpful if you could shed more light on the quoted text above from your p=ost . if you like we can start new thread about it and then take in more detail from there

Jatinder Singh