3HO "Gora Sikhs" & Miri Piri Academy - What do you think?

Kanwaljit Singh · #37 (**permalink**) 18-Jul-2012, 10:48 AM

See this new video and how they subtly OK reading from translation during Akhand Paath:

Gurbani Pronunciation Exclusivity - YouTube

Ishna · #38 (**permalink**) 18-Jul-2012, 19:08 PM

Kanwaljit bhaji

I see Guruka Singh saying he's seen it done. Is that a problem?

Is an akhand paath in English less than an akhand paath in Punjabi? If so, why?

Taranjeet singh · #39 (**permalink**) 18-Jul-2012, 19:51 PM

Ishna ji,

Sorry for barging in.

It is abtrusive to explain this. But the following shall answer your query. I am giving the full write up for the sake of completeness.

Quote:

Akhand Path (Gurmukhī: ਅਖੰਡ ਪਾਠ, Devanāgarī: अखंड पाठ, Shahmukhi: اکھنڈ پاٹھ) is the common practise of continuous recitation (without any break) of sacred religious texts in Hinduism and Sikhism.

[edit]Sikhism

The continuous recitation (without any break) of the Guru Granth Sahib from beginning to end, (all 1430 pages,) lasting about 48 hours, by a team of readers. This "ritual" is considered a very holy practice and is said to bring peace and solace to the participants and the passive listener of the recitation. During the reading it is tradition for langar (or communal food) to be available at all times, thus requiring the continual service and dedication of those in whose honour the Akhand Path is being held for.
The recitation (or "Path") is undertaken for various reasons. It can be in honor of a particular occasion; to mark a happy or sad occasion within the family; or simply to increase one’s feeling of connection to Waheguru. Some of following may call for an Akhand Path depending on the family's circumstances: a birth, a birthday, recovery from a medical operation, a wedding, a death, a graduation, on achieving a goal like a high school certificate, on passing the driving lesson, an anniversary, a historic occasion, etc.
Some Gurdwaras hold a weekly Akhand Path and this gives the congregation (Sadh Sangat) a beautiful opportunity to establish a close relationship with the Guru, the community and provides the opportunity of carry out volunteer work (Seva) thus obtaining the blessing of the Guru’s Word to the whole of the community.
It is said that when Guru Gobind Singh had completed the writing of the Guru Granth Sahib, he had five members of the congregation (Sadh Sangat) read it to him continuously. He stood and listened to the entire Guru Granth Sahib. People brought him water for his bath and for his meals where he stood. This was the first Akhand Path. The second Akhand Path was in Nanded after Guru Gobind Singh sent Banda Singh Bahadar to Punjab. The Akhand Pathees (readers of the Path) were Bhai Gurbaksh Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Dharam Singh (of Panj Piaray), Bhai Santokh Singh, and Bhai Hari Singh (who used to write the daily diary of Guru Gobind Singh). Before giving the Guruship to the Guru Granth Sahib (then called the Adi Granth) the Guru held this Akhand Path and then proclaimed the Adi Granth as the perpetual Guru of the Sikh.
Following this example, the Sikhs started the tradition of dedicating Akhand Paths to various activities. Before battles, the Sikhs would arrange and listen to an Akhand Path and then prepared for Battle. An Akhand Path was arranged before the Sikhs set out to rescue 18,000 indigenous women from the Moghuls, who had captured them and were taking them as slaves.
In 1742, when Sikhs were in the jungles of Punjab, one Sikh woman warrior named Bibi Sundari, requested just before she died (due to the wounds inflicted in battle,) to have an Akhand Path arranged for her. She lay there next to the Guru Granth Sahib and listened to the full recitation of this Path. After kirtan, Ardas and Hukam, she received the Karah Prashad, uttered "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh" breathing her last. Thus began the tradition of reading an Akhand Path in 48 hours.
If the Akhand Path is to be recited in Gurmukhi, then it should be completed within 48 hours. If it is to be done in English, it will take 72 hours to complete.

During an Akhand Path, if a Hukam is taken at the end of a program, the Pathee (person reading the Path) reads the Gurbani that they have arrived at in the regular course of reading. They may slow down and read it clearly. In this case, the first and last two lines are not repeated. When the Pathee reaches the end of the Hukam, they continue in the reading of the Akhand Path.

Akhand Path is supposed to be read loud, clear and also it should be correct.
It is essential for a person to understand the words that are being recited.

Akhand_Path

Following is an extract taken from Sikh Rehat Maryada

Quote:

Sadharan Path (Completion of Normal Intermittent Reading of the Guru Granth Sahib)

Article VIII

a. Every Sikh should, as far as possible, maintain a separate and exclusive place for the installation of Guru Granth Sahib, in his home.

b. Every Sikh, man, woman, boy or girl, should learn Gurmukhi to be able to read the Guru Granth Sahib.

c. Every Sikh should take the Hukam (Command) of the Guru Granth Sahib in the ambrosial (early)hours of the morning before taking meal. If he/she fails to do that, he/she should read or listen to reading from the Guru Granth Sahib some time during the day. If he/she cannot do that either, during travel etc., or owing to any other impediment, he/she should not give in to a feeling of guilt.

d. It is desirable that every Sikh should carry on a continuous reading of the Guru Granth Sahib and complete a full reading in one or two months or over a longer period.

e. While undertaking a full reading of the Guru Granth Sahib , one should recite the Anand Sahib (the first five and the last stanzas) and perform the Ardas. One should, thereafter, read the Japuji. Akhand Path (Uninterrupted-Non-stop-Completion of the reading of the Guru Granth Sahib)

Article IX

a. The non-stop reading of the Guru Granth Sahib is carried on at hard times or on occasions of elation or joy. It takes approximately fortyeight hours. The non-stop reading implies continuous, uninterrupted reading. The reading must be clear and correct. Reading too fast, so that the person listening in to it cannot follow the contents, amounts to irreverence to the Scriptures. The reading should be correct and clear, due care being bestowed on consonant and vowel even though that takes a little longer to complete.

b. Whichever family or congregation undertakes the non-stop reading should carry it out itself through its members, relatives, friends, etc., all together. The number of reciters is not prescribed.
If a person, himself, cannot read, he should listen in to the reading by some competent reader. However, it should never be allowed to happen that the reader carries on the reading all by himself/herself and no member of the congregation or the family is listening in to the reading. The reader should be served with food and clothing to the best of the host's means.

c. Placing a pitcher, ceremonial clarified-butter-fed lamp, coconut, etc. around, during the course of the uninterrupted or any other reading of Guru Granth Sahib, or reading of other Scriptural texts side by side with or in the course of such reading is contrary to the gurmat (Guru's way).

Commencing the Non-Stop Reading (Akhandpath)

Article X

While undertaking the intermittent reading of the whole Guru Granth Sahib, the sacred pudding (Karhah Prashad) for offering should be brought and after reciting the Anand Sahib (six stanzas) and offering Ardas, Hukam should be taken.
While beginning the unbroken reading, the sacred pudding should first be laid. Thereafter, after reciting the Anand Sahib(six stanzas), offering the Ardas and taking the Hukam, the reading should he commenced. Concluding the Reading

Article XI

a. The reading of the whole Guru Granth Sahib (intermittent or non-stop) may be concluded with the reading of Mundawani or the Rag Mala according to the convention traditionally observed at the concerned place. (Since there is a difference of opinion within the Panth on this issue, nobody should dare to write or print a copy of the Guru Granth Sahib excluding the Rag Mala). Thereafter, after reciting the Anand Sahib, the Ardas of the conclusion of the reading should be offered and the sacred pudding (Karhah Prashad) distributed.

b. On the conclusion of the reading, offering of draperies, fly-whisk and awning, having regard to the requirements of the Guru Granth Sahib, and of other things, for Panthic causes, should be made to the best of means.

http://sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/sectio...chap_five.html

Speaking Personally, Akhand Paath is to be carried out in the language the Granth has been written as there cannot be any translation of Bani with cent percent accuracy in any language and that is why Gurmukhi is the script that is to be read during Akhand Paath.

But necessity is the mother of invention. If there is no choice with someone who does not know Gurmukhi It is then Akhand Path may be carried out in English.

.. not sure if SRM says anything about this. I have yet to attend a Paath that has been carried out in English and it would be true for most of us in India who have made it a point to learn Gurmukhi. I have also learnt Gurmukhi through private tutions just for reading Bani.

Coming back to your question there cannot be anything right or wrong; it all boils down to individual's happiness and peace of mind that is the objective of all living being. If one is happy with Akhand Paath being carried out in English-what is wrong in this? Let it be so because ultimately it is between you and Your God, anyway.

Kanwaljit Singh · #40 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 02:01 AM

If Gurus wanted the Paath to be read in other languages, they would have authorized it while they were there. All this while, we have Gurbani written in other scripts, but the translations are not used. And his example of sevadar with stick and the granthi sleeping has nothing to do with what he was talking about. Ishna ji, what you would you like to listen to? What Guru is telling you (Gurbani) or what someone thinks Guru is telling you (Translation)?

Ishna · #41 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 04:25 AM

Thank you both for the information, I will begin another thread momentarily so we can continue

Luckysingh · #42 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 06:16 AM

Reading in translation is NOT acceptable. This is coming from a 1st language english speaking second generation brit.
I have self taught myself to read a little, even though it is quite slow, BUT I would be offended if someone was doing an akhand path dedicated to my father in an english translation.
Sometimes I find it faster and easier to read in a well written transliteration where the spoken language is still gurmukhi. Now someone doing an akhand path in such manner would actually go unoticable if done properly, as one would not be able to tell if he/she is reading from gurmukhi script or transliteration.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-groups-cults/38756-3ho-gora-sikhs-miri-piri-academy.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38756
For someone of my background and understanding, this would be acceptable as long as there were no errors in pronounciation.

Ishna · #43 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 06:36 AM

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/genera...-original.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38756

Here's a thread for the akhand paath discussion. I will comment in a few hours.

Kanwaljit Singh · #44 (**permalink**) 27-Jul-2012, 06:25 AM

All Sikhs should read this letter of today from Yogi Bhajan’s right-hand man, Hari Jiwan Singh Khalsa, to Bhajan’s cult family.
Notice these two lines, Hari Jiwan says, "As the Siri Singh Sahib Ji (Yogi Bhajan) was building our sovereign Sikh spiritual nation, he stripped through the unneeded ritual, cultural superstitions and limiting traditions of traditional Sikhism in order to teach us the essence of the Guru’s Teachings."

Hari Jiwan further says, "Our Master (Yogi bhajan) was accused of many things. He never defended himself and his answer was always satisfying enough to deflect the question but was rarely understood in its depth. In fact, his standard comment when asked to defend himself was, “Whatever you think I am, I’m much worse.”
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38756

See more discussion at: http://gurmukhyoga.com/forum/index.php?id=324