Lets talk about radha swami's

My point was in answer to your suggestion that you are not well versed in Gurmukhi Lipi & it is quite difficult to understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji . So I suggested you the tools which could make you understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , this is not out of place to mention that all the translations are based on Guru Granth Darpan written by Prof Sahib Singh Ji which IMHO is the easiest & best translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji . Regarding you RS master yes you understood it perfectly all right I may not be boasting if I say specifically that there are HUNDREDS of SPNrs who may win in a religious/spiritual/philosophical debate with RS master hands down any time any day that also includes ME , a mere four year amateur in knowing philosophy / Sikh religion . Please do not try to equate the RS master with eternal Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib . We all are followers of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji while you are equating your RS masters with it which is plainly being blind . Try to go a bit deeper who knows your RS master is still getting a half hour / hour coachings on the meanings & spritual matters in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji from some Gyani on a daily baisis to upgrade his knowledge .

 
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http://gursoch.blogspot.com/

http://dalbirk.blogspot.com/

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

There are so many accusations and counter-accusations that appear on religious forums. It is incredible that even appear on religious forums. Together they are quite negative and destructive, rather than spiritually inspiring. They fuel anger, attachment and ego.
Yet nobody can be proved right or wrong. Judgements are made against one's own perceptions. One's own ideology is established by scriptures and founders of religions. These are usually supplemented by a variable mixture of anecdotal evidence, legends, mythological figureheads, rumours, hearsay and idolised past or present figures.

If one strips away all the add-ons, there is only one universal God. God is of all. God loves all irrespective of one's faith, ritual, appearance or practise methodology. There is nothing but God. God is all. Lose yourselves in love of God and love your neighbours, irrespective of colour or creed, however angry they become with you. Love them. Life is too short to spend time damning all your neighbours because they damn you.

Use your so precious human form, earned with great difficulty after countless incarnations, to earn enough karma to escape suffering forever.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-groups-cults/31787-lets-talk-about-radha-swamis.html

Good deeds, good thoughts, and patience with all, will lead to greater contentment. Acceptance is the key. Surrender your mind to God's Hukam. Anger with others will destroy karma very rapidly, and before you know it the messenger of death will be knocking on the door.

Recognise ego however it arises, and work to destroy it. Once you have pulled out this deeply-embedded tree from its roots, all emotional features like anger, attachment, lust, greed, pain, pleasure will all wither and die.

Do not forget people get very attached to religions including living and past gurus and the paraphernalia of religions, as much as they do to political ideology, to money, cars, houses, women/men, children, culture etc. When one becomes indifferent to such matters and accepts the variety of life as part of the path, ie all God's Hukam, then it is easier to lose attachment, and clamp down on one's self-grasping nature. .

The only eternal truth is Truth itself. Sat Naam. Everything else is transient. Very, very few will recognise Truth even though it will be staring at all. Truth is so close yet so far. It is so very hard to give up all one is attached to, which leads to never-ending, and self-feeding delusions, including delusions about what one religion in one set style can do for one, at the same time living in delusion that another religion can not. All can "work", but all require dedication to understanding and realising Truth instead of living in inflated ego and worshipping the physical form of religion.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31787

Good luck to all on all your chosen paths, whatever they are.

Sat Sri Akal

Sanmukh,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the lovely post but before I respond to it, can you please tell me if you are a Radasoami or belong to any other sect?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31787

Thanks for your honesty in advance.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

Tejwant Singh ji, I am not a member of any sect at all. Out of my family though, I have two siblings (of total 6 inc myself) who have switched to RSSB (from Sikhi). One has taken her spouse and all children on that path. The other has taken one son on that path. They get on with their routines; the rest get on with theirs - some are religious and some completley material, until it comes to a wedding ceremony when all turn to the same Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

From my two amritdhari Sikh late parents, both born in first quarter of last century, there are now another 52 including spouses. 7 are now RSSB. I would say 3 including myself are actively interested in Sikhi. Rest are completely disinterested, but attend events like akhand paaths etc. None have taken amrit or keep 5 Ks.

I would say this is pretty representative of many other families that arrived in Uk in 50's, 60s, that I know of. There is obviously a much bigger world outside my limited contacts.

Infighting, and bickering between Sikhs gives nothing to them but grief, and this increased massively after early/mid 80s with surges of refugees arriving with emotions of anger, hate, jealousy, and fanatical views following disappointment and regret of events in India. Few of the vast majority of mona sikhs want to attend a Gurdwara to watch people go on and on about politics, or to listen to people slanging off mona-sikhs for not keeping 5ks. I used to enjoy going to Gurdwaras, even though I did not understand what was being said, when there was seva and worship of God. There was flexibility and compassion, but now there is only point-scoring, attempts to control committees, and attempts to malign people for not staying quite in line. The love of all who was at the gurdwara has been lost, whilst trying to stay in line with the mystery Gurmat, which is defined by emotionally disturbed people who still live in hate of the people they lost their wars to, and have to maintain their resentment of this fact instead of accepting defeat as part of God's Hukam, and then moving on.

Personally, I am only interested in realising Truth (God), and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is providing very moving and useful guidance to me. I have been able to put things into perspective, as a result of reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at home, (in english) for myself. I have found introductory texts on Buddhism very useful in terms of dealing with 5 evils. Buddhists have developed very concrete methods to deal with such evils. I see no harm in using all means available, to attain a common goal, which is to break free from the cycle of reincarnation.

So that's my viewpoint, and if RSSB followers achieve inner peace, whoever they follow, then they will be achieving more than can be achieved in a local gurdwara focussed on politics and making money. They will learn to control anger, whilst people attending gurdwaras will witness displays of anger.

Sat Sri Akal

Dalbirk ji
SSA

Exactly same i m trying to explain that please do not try to equate the Granth Sahib with RS Masters.Actually there is no possible comparison exists. Actually comparison phenomenon only works on some physical conditions.First of all we all know that we have took the words of sikh masters so literly when they said about the next guru after 10th master.
First of all we all know guru Gobind ji never said "Sab sikhan ko hukam hai guru manyo Granth" THESE ARE THE WORDS OF GIANI GIAN SINGH AND SIKH PANTH ADOPTED THIS AS PART OF ARDAS GURU GOBIND SINGH GAVE GURUSHIP TO GRANTH AND HENCE THE NAME GURU GRANTH APPEARED
THE LAST LINES "RAJ KAREGA KHALSA ARE THE WORDINGS OF GURU GOBIND SINGH AND PRESENT IN TANKAHNAMA.
But veer ji KHALSA doesn't mean Sikh religion only . It has a universal meaning "PURE"
but who is pure or who is not That is THE GOD THING .Let him decide his job .Please dont consider yourself capable of deciding that who can translate Granth Sahib and who can't . IT IS THE JOB OF GRANTH SAHIB SO LET GURU GRANTH SAHIB MANAGE WITH RS MASTERS.BECAUSE U SAID GRANTH SAHIB IS COMPLETE GURU AND GURU NEVER NEEDS US TO SOLVE HIS CONCERNS (but we need him in same way)
And the difference between me and you is very simple In my case i found me helpless in spiritualism and need a teacher. and in your case u are well qualified in the same subject.you and your intentions are not wrong the only wrong thing in your case (may be only seems to me) is that when you talks ill for my Hazur IF u cant respect my feelings also u cant lable them wrong.
And my maharaj ji never equate himself with Granth Sahib never ever.He respects Granth Sahib much more than you.They never say us to bow to him.never say us to call him Baba ji.It is the love and respect of sangat who call them Baba Ji.I know you are not feeling comfortable with my points.You know veerji nobody can change your thinking.You grew up with this every body does.I had the same like yours There was a time when i used to hide from my friends and relatives while attending RS satsangs.But i realised i was wrong. I am blessed with naamdaan few years ago And i m telling u my brother IN this case I realised I m a VERY LUCKY man.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31787
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31787
I was also lucky because i was born in some respected Sikh Family but i become more lucky when the Master Choosed me. Now i m complete (as i think) My wife belongs to Gill family most of them are army officers.my father in law is a very strict sikh Army officer.all they follow the main sikh streamline.but they never talk ill about my master. i dont know from where these type(Insulting All other religions Masters ) of information is reaching to you . But brother whoever is telling you these things is not your wellwisher.because making somebody talking ill about any master is just equal to doing a very serious bad thing to somebody. So brother I wish may master choose you (not RS) any other complete master(Pura Satguru).
In your words I got my visa stamped .and u are not even in a queue .But may God bless you . Thats only i can wish for u
(untill now u r unable to show any proofs about your selfmade cases)
please prove it honestly.Its a must call.

Simranpreet5

Thank you for your input sunmukh ji. Some wise words! You are right that there is only 1 God who loves all. There are many paths to that God. However, as humans we tend to stick to 1 path and appreciate tolerance of that path. No-one is saying to hate RS or disrepsect them. The issue still remains that RS are disrespecting Sikhs by distorting the Gurbani we follow. I think if RS accepted they are a different path there would be much more mutual regard and acceptance. Patience is a virtue indeed but not when your belief system is being overruled. Acceptance has to go both ways.

That is the issue here. RS have a physical form, Sikhs do not (Shabad Guru). Therefore by definition they cannot be the same. It is not my place to say which is better or worse. I am merely trying to encourage people to accept the differences so we can move on to acceptance and constructive discussion.

Using other sources to help is not an issue. The way those other sources are treated is the issue as that distinguishes between someone following a Sikhi path or another path. Again acceptance of this fact on all sides will lead to better understanding. It is nothing to do with point scoring but recognising a different way of thinking. If RS followers find inner peace then fantastic but all I am seeing here is anger and an insistence that theirs is the only right way. All I'm seeing here is ego and judgement of others who disagree. That to me doesn't show inner peace. At least those of us not on the RS pathway accept we are still learning but the RS seem to believe they are already in heaven at the expense of everyone else-that is the feeling coming through to me and that makes me sad.

What does granth mean to you if not Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

If it is not our job to decide who can translate the Granth Sahib then it is not your job either so stop trying to tell us that only RS masters can interpret. I encourage everyone to listen to others BUT ALSO go to the source. In university, you never take your lecturers word for things but research around the subject yourself. This is no different. If someone wants to use different sources then accept that and stop judging them. Accept you have different philosophies or accept teachers can also be wrong.

We are not labelling him as definitely wrong, just that there are other ways of thinking. You are the one that is not accepting of this fact. If you want to follow RS master that is fine but stop insulting those who do not. Also accept it is a different path to Sikhism as Sikhism does not accept anymore living Gurus.

I am very happy for you that you have found a path that has made you happy. That does not give you the right to judge others so please refrain from making such statements. Thanks. You all say Guru Granth Sahib is open to everyone but the above statement contradicts your stance as it says to me that only RS can give you liberation. Please decide which way you are going.

Findingmywayji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said. No one could have put it better. I want to thank you for responding to Sanmukh ji on my behalf. I would not have done a better job.

You are right. Sikhs do not mind but rather accept all peoples with their way of seeking the truth, however, we do mind when someone is pretending to be a Sikh and is not, when someone is using Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only GURU as a money making machine and promoting his own santmat rather than Gurmat.

Sikhs do not accept any deh dhari gurus as satgurus like the Radasoamis do.

For Sikhs, Ik Ong Kaar is the only Satguru.

It is about time for the Radasoami deh dhari gurus to be big enough to walk on their own rather than holding Sikhi's hands for their own material benefits and using Sikhi to con their followers.

Why are they too insecure to call themselves cult leaders?

Why can't these so called Gurus who are hiding behind the Sikhi garb write their own granths?

These are the questions the followers of the Radasoami sect should ask themselves because Sikhi journey is journey of the individual and it only needs Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our guide, not any deh dhari Guru dressed up in a Sikhi costume.

Thanks once again.

Tejwant Singh

Simranpreet ji i know RADHA SWAMIS , NIRANKARIS , DERA SACHA SAUDA ppls have problems in accepting GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI AS GURU but what you think of following

ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.

ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥੫॥
If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||







Sri Wahe guru ji ki fateh

harmanpreet singh ji

"bin shabde anter aanera : na vastu lahe na chuke fera
satgur hath kunji horut dar khulae nahi guru pure bhagae milavnea"
88
Guru Amardas ji
JAD TAK PURA SATGURU NAHI MILDA OUNA CHIR ES SARIR DE ANDRON RAB NU MILAN DA RASTA NAHI MIL SAKDA.Pura guru tan hi milda hai je Bhagan(kismat) vich likhea hove.
If we take Granth sahib as complete Guru and we all know Granth sahib is available for everybody .Then why shri guru Amardas ji written in his bani ki pura satguru je kismat vich hove ta hi milda hai.

Findingmyway ji said in his last post
"At least those of us not on the RS pathway accept we are still learning but the RS seem..."
according to him sikhs are going to be remain in learning till the end of the time But somebody tell me after 400-500 years they r still learning When they are going to be Practicing .Find a living master as written in Granth sahib and be practicing dont pretend u dont need master You DO need.none of 10 gurus will come to remind u this They have already written all this in Granth sahib all you need a little help .actually everybody does.So go surunder your "-my-mine" and take SARAN.
Thats why i m telling U please wake up !! GOOD MORNING

Simranpreet5