Nanaksar Movement

Brother..Thats exactly what many say about Guru Gobind Singh ji..Panj kakaars Khalsa discipline tc etc...their stock answer is"....I am beleiver in ONLY Guru Nannak ji..or Guru ramdass Ji..I dont know and odnt care about what the other Gurus did or what their followers do...''''..IF you wnat to discuss Guru nanak ji ...Fine..if about Sikhs Khalsa etc..sorry. !!
Baba Nand Singh ji is no more among us to be discussed...whats being discusse dis the PRESENT manmatt at Nanaksaree Thaaths.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-groups-cults/30180-nanaksar-movement.html
There was no Guru ka Langgar at the MAIN Nanaksaree thhath in Jagraon when i viisted many times..NO one can ever say that about Darbar sahib Amrtisar or any other Historicla Gurdwaras r takhats...However..there is of course Langgar at many Gurdwaras controlled by nanaksarees...i have one within 10 km of my place..its a historical Gurdwara founded by Gurditt singh sarhali of Kama gata Maru fame...lack of sikhs came about due to migration to bigger towns nearby..Gurdwara had little sangat..a jatha of nanksarees arrived form India..now have over 25 pathees etc who perform akhand paaths 24/7..and of course langgar is also 24.7...becasue Langgar is one of the attractions and means of goluck....its a NECESSITY rather than Maryada..

2. I dont discuss sikhs who have passed on...so nothing about Nand Singh or Ishar singh or anyoen else in that category. Please continue with your devotion.

 
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We hear with our ears but we listen with our minds.
Hearing the sound of a mantra is one thing - listening to it is another !

Amarjit Singh ji,
Can you please describe this darshan?

BhagatSingh veer ji is visualization different than a Darshan? The reason I ask is that perhaps based on my upbringing from the same area as the Guru jis, based on some of the paintings, the use of metaphors in Gurbani, I can almost get a Darshan (it may or may not have anything to do with reality!) anytime I want. My scenario is Guru ji sitting and a gathering around them that they are discussing or stating Gurbani to. This is no flippant comment but an actual and humbling visualization that comes into play when I try to translate Gurbani or study the same.

Any thoughts!

Sat Sri Akal.

Yes Veerji I understand where you are coming from. Visualization is not it. Darshan is more akin to a vision or a revelation. It is an inner seeing, insight. It is enlightenment.
It is not a hallucination or a dream (A mind that cannot differentiate between hallucinations and darshan cannot know whether it has had a darshan). It is reality in its utmost clarity. It is entirely intuitive and quite rare (even more so without meditation).

In this shabad, Guru Ramdas ji expresses his desire for Hari darshan.
ਗੋਂਡ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
गोंड महला ४ ॥
Gond mėhlā 4.
Gond, Fourth Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸਨ ਕਉ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਬਹੁ ਤਪਤੈ ਜਿਉ ਤ੍ਰਿਖਾਵੰਤੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਨੀਰ ॥੧॥
हरि दरसन कउ मेरा मनु बहु तपतै जिउ त्रिखावंतु बिनु नीर ॥१॥
Har ḏarsan ka▫o merā man baho ṯapṯai ji▫o ṯarikẖāvaʼnṯ bin nīr. ||1||
My mind yearns so deeply for the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan, like the thirsty man without water. ||1||

ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਮੁ ਲਗੋ ਹਰਿ ਤੀਰ ॥
मेरै मनि प्रेमु लगो हरि तीर ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30180
Merai man parem lago har ṯīr.
My mind is pierced through by the arrow of the Lord's Love.

ਹਮਰੀ ਬੇਦਨ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਪੀਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
हमरी बेदन हरि प्रभु जानै मेरे मन अंतर की पीर ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Hamrī beḏan har parabẖ jānai mere man anṯar kī pīr. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Lord God knows my anguish, and the pain deep within my mind. ||1||Pause||

ਮੇਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਕੀ ਕੋਈ ਬਾਤ ਸੁਨਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਭਾਈ ਸੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਬੀਰ ॥੨॥
मेरे हरि प्रीतम की कोई बात सुनावै सो भाई सो मेरा बीर ॥२॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30180
Mere har parīṯam kī ko▫ī bāṯ sunāvai so bẖā▫ī so merā bīr. ||2||
Whoever tells me the Stories of my Beloved Lord is my Sibling of Destiny, and my friend. ||2||

ਮਿਲੁ ਮਿਲੁ ਸਖੀ ਗੁਣ ਕਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇ ਲੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਧੀਰ ॥੩॥
मिलु मिलु सखी गुण कहु मेरे प्रभ के ले सतिगुर की मति धीर ॥३॥
Mil mil sakẖī guṇ kaho mere parabẖ ke le saṯgur kī maṯ ḏẖīr. ||3||
Come, and join together, O my companions; let's sing the Glorious Praises of my God, and follow the comforting advice of the True Guru.. ||3||

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੀ ਹਰਿ ਆਸ ਪੁਜਾਵਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸਨਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਸਰੀਰ ॥੪॥੬॥ ਛਕਾ ੧॥
जन नानक की हरि आस पुजावहु हरि दरसनि सांति सरीर ॥४॥६॥ छका १॥
Jan Nānak kī har ās pujāvahu har ḏarsan sāʼnṯ sarīr. ||4||6|| Cẖẖakā 1||
Please fulfill the hopes of servant Nanak, O Lord; his body finds peace and tranquility in the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. ||4||6|| Chhakaa 1.||

http://www.sikhnet.com/audio_play/track,8569,10803

Its a Historically known FACT..that when Guru Angad Ji was bestowed the Gurgaddee..there is NOT a single written/oral skahi etc whereby SIKHS continued to "yearn" for and get the "Darshan" of GURU NANAK JI Sahib...Sikhs hwo lived practically their netire lives with Guru nanak ji..Baba Budha Ji etc..also didnt "get darsahn" of GURU NANAK JI..as the Nanaksariah babas Nanad Singh ishar Singh etc CLAIM to have done so. When Guru nanak ji passed on and Bhai Lehnna Ji transformed into Guru ANGAD JI..it was GURU ANGAD JI that sikhs saw, had darshan of..and bowed to.
The EXACT SAME scenario was REPEATED with each succeessor NANAK...when Guru Angad Ji passed on and Bhai Amardass Ji became Guru AMARDASS JI...no one ever again caimed he ahd "darshan" of Guru Angad Ji or Guru nanak ji...or that he set down a plate of jalebis and meditated until "GURU NANAK JI/GURU ANGAD JI" materialised in darshan Form and ATE the Thaal clean !!. Any SIKH who had a wish/desire to feed the GURU with a Thaal of Jalebis brought it to GURU AMARDASS Jis presence !!
Exact same thing was repeated till the GURGADEE was bestowed on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
1. The Namdharees FLAT OUT REFUSE to accept THIS FACT. They were however open enough/honest enough to CREATE their own .... EXTRA Judicial GURUS...claiming the Gurgadee after Guru Gobind Singh Ji...

2. BUT certain men couldnt accept the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the DEFACTO and TRUE SUccessor of GURU NANAK....but also DIDNT HAVE the honesty/guts of the Namdharees to make a clean break...these so called Brahmgyanis began to make claims that they were privileged to have "PHYSICAL DARSHAN" of GURU NANAK Ji out of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...and this physical entity ate food etc..etc...and they began to preach the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a " PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY that needs clothes, special air conditioned rooms, winter clothing, summer clothing etc etc..and this Human Body Manifests IF the sikh genuinely LOVES the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so much ??? and of course the snat loves the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that much that Guru nanak ji appears every now and then to eat his food. IN part due to this Many HUNDREDS of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji birs/sukhsasn rooms have actually SHORT CIRCUITED and BURNT DOWN...becasue the air cons and fans etc left ON 24/7 to COOL the sleeping GURU..are not GUARDED 24/7 so that such incidents dont happen !! Very FEW ( in fact NONE) of the same Sants/Brahmgyanis have ever been "burnt" in such short circuits in their Thaaths/deras ???? Doest this anamoly mean anything ?? a real food consumimng human sant almost NEVER burns down in a short circuit fire in his bedroom...BUT HUNDREDS of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji do in fact get burnt each YEAR...Did the Fire just burn the actual physical Granth sahib or the "Guru nanak" within as well ?? was the GURU not burnt ?? didnt he say anything to the "SANT" that installed the air conditions/fans ???
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30180

ALL this is due to the FACT that the correct gurmatt explanation/menaing of "DARSHAN" has been brought down to the level of uneducated simpletons...soemthing to be SEEN with ones EYES....when GURBANI clearly tells us that EYES to see the SHABAD are NOT these physicla eyes....DARSHAN of the SHABAD is not just "seeing a vision"..its FOLLOWING the shabad and adapting our LIFE to the Shabad....becoem NIRBHAU..become NIRVAIR...dyawaan..compassionate..loving..as the SHABAD IS.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30180

On the return journey form Hemkunt someone asked...Were YOU lucky enough to have "darshan" of Guru Gobind Singh ji..riding his blue steed with baaj in hand ?? many claim this...the Gurmatt reply is: ANY SIKH who cant have Darshan of the Ten Gurus in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..isnt worthy of his salt....Guru Ji is not hanging about riding horses in the mountains or waiting around in hazoor sahib..HE is PRESENT each moment in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..waiting when we will FOLLOW WHAT HE WROTE DOWN for us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I would say darshan allows love, compassion, humility, patience, contentment, kindness and truthfulness, to manifest in their pure forms in the individual, and often times do during a darshan. Guru Ramdas ji is already living the message of his Guru but still yearns for Hari darshan because it allows the individual to live the message more fully.

I would almost certainly say I do not do Darshan, but Veer Bhagat Singhji would probably disagree, my definition of Darshan is reading Gurbani and as the result of following such, watching my life become better, more peaceful, more focused, and thinking of my past, and how focusing on such platinum words would have stopped a lot of the things I have been through happening in the first place, and also reliving past scenes and mentally seeing how the outcome would have changed if I had an interest in Bani then, I give Darshan to Creator and Creation, and respect and bow to our Gurus for achieving in full the frequency of the eternal one

Not very exciting, sorry!

Veer Ji, the pakhandies have a dug themselves a well that is so deep that its very difficult for them to see the light. The creator sees all so they carry on with their pakhand to feed their ego. Fools will be fools...

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The Gurbani compares a fool (Moorakh) with an empty vessel.

ਸੰਤਨ ਸਿਉ ਬੋਲੇ ਉਪਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਮੂਰਖ ਸਿਉ ਬੋਲੇ ਝਖ ਮਾਰੀ ॥੨॥੩॥ ॥੪॥੧॥:

Speaking with the Saints, one becomes generous. To speak with a fool is to babble uselessly (ਵਿਅਰਥ ਖਪ-ਖਪਾ). By speaking with fools (i.e., in his association), only corruption (Bikaars) increases. ||2||

If I do not speak, what can the wretch do (i.e., we must only speak with the saintly people)? ||3|| Says Kabeer, the empty pitcher makes noise, but that which is full makes no sound (i.e., the fool or the person empty of virtues talks too much, but the wise or the person full of virtues does not) ||4||1|| (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 870).

Guru ramdass Ji si yearning for Hari "darshan" becasue Hari is the Creator...and HIGHER than Guru ramdass Ji...we ordinary Sikhs yearn for Guru darshan frst...and then graduate to hari darshan..and Guru darshan is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji teachings..