Yogi Bhajan and 3HO

pk70 · #37 (**permalink**) 15-Mar-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aad0002

Coetgan ji

Please allow me to respond first with this quote from Joginder ji

"Should not we be moving on from yogi[and all the rest of his names]bhajan as Yaheguru called him on to the next cycle about five years ago and seeing what happens to the 3ho Sikhs without yogi bhajan's influence And also remember that not all "white Sikhs" including me Joginder Singh foley are not 3ho as i for one did not come to Sikhi via 3ho I for one could never get the yoga thing that 3ho are in to especially after what i have read in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji about yoga

"

Like Joginder ji -- I never got the yoga thing either, though I tried. And I am not 3HO... But...

Here is why I want to start with that quote. It is time to move on -- on from the early years of the 3HO organization. The organization is Yogi Bhajan's legacy. They have established a worldwide presence in the media, commerce, research, medicine, art, music and international seva. Millions of people read the sikhnet.com web site daily, and I am one of them. The resources that are gathered there are remarkable if only in breadth and number.

The 3HO Sikhs are now in their 2nd and 3rd generation of followers. And as one who follows their evolution it is evident that within that "sect" or "movement" already an extraordinary degree of diversity exists as well as tolerance for all the many expressions of Sikhism. Watching the Sunday gurdwara service by internet last week I saw Sikhs in full white bani, traditional salwar kameez, in jeans and sweatshirts, in dastar and not, keshdhari and not, American born and Asian. This suggests to me that a level of emotional and religious maturity has been reached.

The katha is often a recording of a Yogi Bhajan audio lecture. This last week, the katha was entitled Merits and Demerits. In it, Yogi Bhajan himself said that clinging to yoga practice and searching for a guru tells him that "you just don't have it." And by that he meant, that the change must come from within the heart of an individual -- yoga and gurus not withstanding. In fact, he was harsh in his criticism of seekers after babas. I of course am oversimplifying his message.

The organization is misunderstood and Yogi's memory is continually taxed by internet rumors (that are stale and untested). The actual evidence leads me in another direction. Yogi Bhajan, for whatever and all of his failings as a human being, came to the US at the height of the "free drugs/free sex/free expression/anything goes movement, was greeted by a large number of young people who realized they were standing on shaky ground, and he straightened them out. Today they prosper. They have their own way of doing things -- in some ways they vary from the rehat -- but then Yogi had a lot to say about SGPC in that lecture too.

So everyone has to decide for himself. But I say it is time to move on and engage the 3HO organization for who they are now in real time.

I agree.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #38 (**permalink**) 15-Mar-2009, 12:21 PM

Accept what is Gurmatt..the "GURU's MATT"..and leave the rest...ManMatt.
Nobody can be perfect..as humans we all err...ONLY the CREATOR..the GURU... is error free...
Bhullan andar sabh ko..abhull Guru Kartaar..
Certainly everyone does have something good to learn from..even Yogi Bhajan..I like much about him...but long ago discarded what i dont like about him....
So MANY of those i know..got the inspiration to TIE Dastaars from looking at photos of Yogi bahjans Singhhaniah followers..they saw that tying a dastaar for a female Kaur is dignified and wonderful...and such role models among PUNJABI SIKHS are as rare as needles in a haystack...BUT among Western Sikhs..these are the MAJORITY...so for ME personally they have lots to TEACH ME..a Punjabi Sikh born into Sikhism...whereas Punjabi Sikhs born sikhs are desertign the Dastaar in their thousands daily..these followers of Yogi are tying Dastaars in their thousands....

Coetgan · #39 (**permalink**) 15-Mar-2009, 13:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pk70

I agree.

I also agree 100%. Let us each follow our own heart, and our own path. I leave this world of Sikhs with best wishes for you all. We are all human beings, dipping one toe into all infinity, and one toe into the human world.

NavjeetSingh · #40 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2009, 21:22 PM

Sherab we are talking about SSS Harbhajan Singh Yogi ( Yogi Bhajan ) and not his website..
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-groups-cults/19093-yogi-bhajan-and-3ho.html

You need to do some homework.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19093

Just do what yogi bhajan told for about 30-40 days. If your mind bends more towards Sikhism... yogi bhajan has done nothing wrong.

Listen to his videos on youtube and try to understand and do stand under it, you will come to know what he talks about .

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says all paths are equal. The point is - battle is to be won, no matter which way you take to win it. The battle is to achive salvation by any means. Of course not by using violent methods/ harming others. As some Islamist groups try to do so in the name of Islam and do try to corrupt the teachings of Islam.

I would like to debate with you.

singhini · #41 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2009, 17:19 PM

I have found this discussion very interesting to read. Thank you to all who have contributed.

In my humble opinion Yogi Bhajan introduced people to a more healthier lifestyle than one they were currently experiencing. Through the yoga, nitnem and daily banis people find the way towards the guru. To attaining good physical health, mental discipline and spiritual peace.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19093
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19093

It may not be perfect but surely its a step in the right direction

ballym · #42 (**permalink**) 08-Mar-2010, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singhini

To attaining good physical health, mental discipline and spiritual peace.

It may not be perfect but surely its a step in the right direction

yes, instead of crying foul and go against flow, mix with flow and purify it to the extent of your contribution.

Siri Kamala · #43 (**permalink**) 10-Dec-2010, 09:46 AM

Hello Coetgan ji,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coetgan

Yet he has made a strong and mostly positive impact on the world.

Admittedly I couldn't see your face at the moment you typed that but... you're completely serious aren't you? You actually said that with a straight face?

Wait so... using that logic, serial killer Dennis Rader (more commonly known as BTK) had "a strong and mostly positive impact on the world" because hey -- sure, maybe he killed 10 people and tortured several animals, but he was a good husband and father, a hard worker, a regular church-goer, served as President of his Church Council, was a Cub Scout Leader, raised his son to be an Eagle Scout, and put his daughter through college.

What a great guy!

Quote:

(snippage)
After these adventures in spiritual systems, I am more inclined to be tolerant of Yogi Bhajan's style.

*Style*? You think this is about his STYLE?

"Sexual assault" is not a "style." It's a crime.

"Bilking elderly people out of their life savings" to support your taste in fancy cars and expensive jewelry is not a "style." It's a crime.

It's probably a lot easier to be "tolerant of Yogi Bhajan's style" when he's not forcing himself on you sexually or sending your 9-year-old child off to India against your will or yelling at you for having the audacity to give voice to your opinion or clocking you across the face for the crime of being his wife.

Quote:

It seems more important to observe whether a teaching or teacher works for those who follow him/her/it, than concern ourselves on whether it is right according to some morality we ascribe to.

I'm sorry, but no. This is not some obscure, esoteric moral code we're talking about that is only observed in the Hadza people living in a remote corner of central east Africa.

Rape is NEVER okay.

Beating your wife? NEVER okay.

Treating your followers as indentured servants and even slaves? NEVER okay.

Dividing otherwise happily married couples? NEVER okay.

Sending minor children to live on the other side of the world apart from their parents against the parents' wishes, though the parents are good parents and have no reason to be deprived of their children? NEVER okay.

Using one's power as a religious leader to mislead, manipulate, and control people? NEVER EVER okay.

Quote:

What is there to argue about?

Oh, gosh -- lots. But we can start with just the things I've named there above for now.

Quote:

The rigid interpretation of the "correct" way to live or appreciate the divine that is immanent in this world, is simply a game of the mind. All practices exist to encourage and empower us to become more truly who we are already. Who we are is not religious, and has no particular culture or practices. The truth reveals itself moment by moment. Those who claim to know truth, and quote scriptures of any kind, just create confusion, vainly attempting to control a world that is beyond our ability to "know". Perhaps Yogi Bhajan is exactly the right teacher for many people, even as he is not the right teacher for others.

Here is my thought: Yogi Bhajan is like the chemical compound strychnine. In small and/or infrequent or highly filtered doses, it may appear to do you some good -- trace amounts of strychnine in human systems can act as a stimulant or a laxative. In any case, those trace amounts will not do you any long-term damage, but in large or unfiltered doses, or in doses that occur with great frequency, the risk of lasting harm increases dramatically.

So...really, your saying that he was the right teacher for anybody, in light of the harmful and egotistical behaviors he engaged in? That makes you an enabler of that harm. You are reinjuring everyone he has victimized when you become his apologist in this forum or any other. Is that really a role you're interested in playing? Especially for a criminal who was lucky enough to not get busted before he died?

Quote:

You are correct to look for the truth and do your own research. From what you say, you do not need to seek a teacher at all. The guru is within, the scholars on this site will affirm that. At times we may need an outer guru, and certain practices may or may not be helpful. Who's to say?

The people who have been irreparably harmed by this charlatan. THAT is who's to say.

Quote:

We already know the truth, but it hides in the very search for the Truth. We know our way, but slick salesmen from the deluded society in which we live have sold us other truths, which lead us away from our Selves.
My two cents.

And there was no salesman more slick or, I daresay, sociopathic than Yogi Bhajan. Please. I respectfully request that you discontinue saying or doing anything that even comes close to sounding like you're making an excuse for the things this man did. It is an insult to everyone he has harmed.

dalbirk · #44 (**permalink**) 11-Dec-2010, 22:29 PM

Though I agree with a lot of points raised by Sri kamala Ji , but Yogi Bhajan's followers are doing a great job with Sikhnet , Sikhiwiki , Sikhnet radio , Sikhnet Radio on Android ( thanks to which I am able to hear all the world Gurudwaras live ) . I was amongst the bitter opponenets of 3HO but seeing the positives they are making I feel they are contributing positively . they are NOT introducing their own Bani like Radha Soamis , Nirankaris & whole lot of others. Except for their FANATIC defense of Yoga ( which is not acceptable as per Gurbani ) , Vegetarianism & Sant Singh Khalsa Consensus translation (which is RUBBISH at best) I find very positive things they are doing.

findingmyway · #45 (**permalink**) 12-Dec-2010, 18:39 PM

I understand people wanting to be fair to the 3HO organization so perhaps debating the personality of the founder is not the best way forward. However, on ideological grounds, I see 3HO as no different to radhaswami, nirankari's or any other sect. They used Sikhism to draw people in then separate off with their own set of ideologies and rehit. Sherab ji's posts tackled this to some extent. All these groups do some good work and all of these groups also distort Gurbani for their own ends. All these groups are personality based where the personality takes over the Guru Granth Sahib ji in importance. All these groups are sects-nothing more, nothing less. If they are brave enough they will stand on their own 2 feet and not hide behind the veil of Sikhism.