Who is "Mohan"?

Ambarsaria · #19 (**permalink**) 27-May-2012, 23:53 PM

Bhagat Singh ji perhaps you need to reflect and not be party to centuries of lies and mis-direction to malign the Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Read the reference and Prof. Sahib Singh ji's work where he categorically debunks the hypothesis that you have borrowed and pushed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

........
Anyway, as the sakhi goes after Guru Arjan Dev ji read the first Pauri Bhai Mohan tested him, said some harsh words, after the second pauri Bhai Mohan opened his doors, upon hearing the third, he came out with the pothi.

The sakhi has been with us for many centuries I would not discount on it based on some (flawed) personal logic.

The conclusion page which debunks the argument is as follows and the arguments are extremely well documented,

So please don't try to open and push centuries old cancers and mis-information attempts as centuries don't make it right but simply support the level of malice and dis-respect people have shown and continue to show. Your posts being no exception and pretty sad coming from a person who appears to generally find his references well. However in this case sexiness and juiciness of the story seems to overcome wisdom with you. cheerleader

The complete book available here,

http://www.sikhbookclub.com/

(http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bani-s...downloads.html)

Sat Sri Akal.

Scarlet Pimpernel · #20 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 03:42 AM

Quote:

So please don't try to open and push centuries old cancers and mis-information

Veer Ji

Our Fifth Guru dedicated two full Astpadi to praise of Saints ,that is a precedent perhaps ,personally I feel it is possible for a Guru to talk about contemporary matters like when he discussed the Mogul regime and practices of the day, we should be all advised us against Slander and make our speech as sweet as ice cream.

Ambarsaria · #21 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 03:58 AM

Scarlet Pimpernel ji thanks for your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet Pimpernel

Veer Ji
Our Fifth Guru dedicated two full Astpadi to praise of Saints ,that is a precedent perhaps ,yet he only advised us against Slander.

Scarlet Pimpernel ji our Guru ji were very forgiving but they were not into closing their eyes to not see the destroyers of the message. The painstaking care and safeguards put in were to guard against such, slander or not. It appears centuries have not taught us to walk away from such idiots and we try to in freedom of speech keep embedding them as pseudo truths. It appears we as Sikhs specialize in taking proven rubbish and recycling it over and over again and there are far too many examples here from Sri Chand to this thread. Older people doing it is understandable, they are slave to habit or too proud, but the next generation being supported, led or guided into this is reprehensible. At least that is how I see it.

I like ice cream too but not all can be sugar coated.

Sat Sri Akal.

Astroboy · #22 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 06:52 AM

Yet another shabad quoting Mohan on Page 1209 Line 3 :

Page 1209, Line 3
ਮੋਹਨ ਘਰਿ ਆਵਹੁ ਕਰਉ ਜੋਦਰੀਆ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/38559-who-is-mohan.html
Mohan gẖar āvhu kara▫o joḏrī▫ā.
O my Fascinating Lord, I pray to You: come into my house.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

I like this shabad sung by Bhai Nirmal Singh. Here's a video of his:

Mohan Ghar Aavo Karo Jodariya - Bhai Nirmal Singh - Live Sri Harmandir Sahib - YouTube

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38559

BhagatSingh · #23 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 08:46 AM

Ambarsaria ji,
I don't know what you are talking about. What argument are you debunking and with what argument are you debunking it? What are the arguments here? Please present them.

Quote:

too many examples here from Sri Chand to this thread

You seem to have a narrow range of things you relate with when it comes to Sikhism. Baba Sri Chand is obviously far from that range. Nirmalas, established by Guru Tegh Bahadur and his son, also seem to be out of that range. Bhagat Kabir and Bhagat Namdev probably aren't in this range either (See quoted shabads). In fact, catholic mystics appeal to you more than our own.

Is your way of doing things to distance our own people and accuse them of "push centuries old cancers and mis-information attempts" and "taking proven rubbish and recycling it over and over again" and "Older people doing it is understandable, they are slave to habit or too proud, but the next generation being supported, led or guided into this is reprehensible." ?

Now you probably get some satisfaction out of that, and obviously, it seems like the righteous thing to do. But it seems to me that the more beneficial approach is to take everything in and then sort it out rather than filtering out things you didn't first agree with. The former receptive way is the way of a scholar, the latter defensive and hostile way is that of a warrior. Different environments call for different roles. Both are necessary but recognize the environment.

Anyway I am leaving for motherland tomorrow for 3 months and so I won't be able to check SPN or respond to your reply. This is my last check and response.

I am using the Freed Kote Wala teeka as my guide, occasionally referring to PSS as well. This teeka not only explains the shabad in the conext of the sakhi but also out of it, and beautifully so. The amount of work this/these person(s) has/have done is just brilliant. I just wish I spoke Braj so I could read and understand it better. Teh dominant language in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is also Braj so the best guide to understanding is to understand Braj.
Anyways, everything I have said in the thread can be traced to the shabads I have posted (by Bhagat Kabir and Bhagt namdev and Guru Nanak) plus the Freed Kote Wala teeka translation of the shabad Ishna ji posted, which provides the sakhi and non-sakhi interpretation. In my absence these tools should be used to further the discussion on my side if needed.

Goodbye and no hard feelings. See you when I get back

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #24 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 13:00 PM

Bhagat Ji..
even the tiniest backwater villages in the MAND area (swampy beas banks) have INTERNET Cafes...so unless you are going into "SAMADHEE" some where up in the Himalayan caves ( ala...baba Mohan in his chubara he he )..then you can check into SPN quite easily..I did daily on my travels throughour punjab/himachal/rajasthan/nepal/arunachal too !! have a Nice trip..hope the Motherland feeds you quite well..

Ambarsaria · #25 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 20:38 PM

Bhagat Singh ji thanks for your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Ambarsaria ji,
I don't know what you are talking about. What argument are you debunking and with what argument are you debunking it? What are the arguments here? Please present them.

Please read the first chapter of the Book identified above. Since you injected garbage it behooves on you to remove it. The chapter clearly reviews the sources of such fables, researches these, checks for validation and decides that it was self serving on part of the fable makers and nothing more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

You seem to have a narrow range of things you relate with when it comes to Sikhism. Baba Sri Chand is obviously far from that range.

Bhagat Singh ji my range is not narrow. I just am not in the habit of taking insulting insinuations towards Guru jis and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji lightly. It can take forms of creating superstitious stories about them, highlighting poetry left out as not bani and somehow being compared to it, changing metaphoric references into adherence or sympathy for Hinduvta, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Nirmalas, established by Guru Tegh Bahadur and his son, also seem to be out of that range. Bhagat Kabir and Bhagat Namdev probably aren't in this range either (See quoted shabads). In fact, catholic mystics appeal to you more than our own.

I did not say anything in any posts about Bhagat Kabir or Bhagat Namdev. As a matter of fact at one time I was thinking of translating for self all of Bhagat Kabir ji's bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I believe you are confusing me with Randip Singh ji's posts and some of Bhagat Kabir writings that are not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru ji selected what was in and what was not worth inclusion in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I respect that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Is your way of doing things to distance our own people and accuse them of "push centuries old cancers and mis-information attempts" and "taking proven rubbish and recycling it over and over again" and "Older people doing it is understandable, they are slave to habit or too proud, but the next generation being supported, led or guided into this is reprehensible." ?

Read closely I stated that some specialize in just throwing out centuries old issues resolved but obviously not accepted by the denegrators of Guru jis and Sikhism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Now you probably get some satisfaction out of that, and obviously, it seems like the righteous thing to do. But it seems to me that the more beneficial approach is to take everything in and then sort it out rather than filtering out things you didn't first agree with.

The former receptive way is the way of a scholar, the latter defensive and hostile way is that of a warrior. Different environments call for different roles. Both are necessary but recognize the environment.

Prof. Sahib Singh ji has already done scholarly work with the above approach in the referenced book. I did not throw anything out. There is no point inserting 30 pages of the book in this thread and it is easy reading with reference provided. I took nothing out or put anything in. I did not even know about this bloody thing till this thread. As a child I know we always treated Sakhis as tongue-in-cheek entertainment and not of any scholarly or truth checked facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Anyway I am leaving for motherland tomorrow for 3 months and so I won't be able to check SPN or respond to your reply. This is my last check and response.

Have a great trip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

I am using the Freed Kote Wala teeka as my guide, occasionally referring to PSS as well. This teeka not only explains the shabad in the conext of the sakhi but also out of it, and beautifully so. The amount of work this/these person(s) has/have done is just brilliant. I just wish I spoke Braj so I could read and understand it better. Teh dominant language in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is also Braj so the best guide to understanding is to understand Braj.

I know you love finding new unsubstantiated facts and enjoy. Here another garbage comment about Braj as underlined above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Anyways, everything I have said in the thread can be traced to the shabads I have posted (by Bhagat Kabir and Bhagt namdev and Guru Nanak) plus the Freed Kote Wala teeka translation of the shabad Ishna ji posted, which provides the sakhi and non-sakhi interpretation. In my absence these tools should be used to further the discussion on my side if needed.

Goodbye and no hard feelings. See you when I get back

No worries I have no interest in carrying this forward. I simply learnt a bit more from Prof. Sahib Singh ji's book which reviews and determines facts on this as well as attempts at distorting Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji through the inclusion of spurious other writing over the times by the ascribers when there were no printing presses. It is a fascinating book which discusses Niranjanas attempts to destroy Guru jis and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as well.

Sat Sri Akal.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #26 (**permalink**) 29-May-2012, 08:48 AM

The faridkotee teeka is the most Orangeish...( Bhagwa)....so heavily tainted with Vedant and all that that reading it makes one "like having Yellow Fever..PEELIAH TAAP.
The DERA that put it ONLINE..have very cleverly disguised their derawadee dehdharee tendencies by also putting ONLINE..the Mahan Kosh along with other dubious sources like suraj parkash and various tainted bipparwadee literature. Sikhs have to DISCERN trash from Useful works by following Gurbani..AAkleean SAHIB seveah...Caveat Emperor in reading teekas..