What does Salvation/Mukti (ਮੁਕਤੀ) mean to You as a Sikh?

Veer BhagatSingh ji thanks for the response.

The progress part I can totally agree with you. It is the end point that I was not sure of as to what and how such end point is definable and by whom! If it is simply a state of being then it becomes wrong to seek mukti as if it is forever undefinable then its state has infinite variations. What is infinite in Sikhism, one creator!

So it comes around to the core message in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji of trying to understand the creator as much as you can and live accordingly without the definition or seeking of an end point. First line says creator is infinite and nothing in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji tries to put it in a box or makes it bounded in limits.

Any thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.

 
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The end point is death defined by those who died. Now based on how much the Gurus have died they can extrapolate to what it would look like if you died completely. E.g a completely dead person is the most patient of all.

You are right to say to not seek an end point. To seek a goal then takes one away from meditation. But then again Bhagat Kabeer used to meditate in cremation grounds.

Please clarify this point.

The definition sheds light on the phenomenon for those who have no experience with it. Humans need definitions to show them the way, otherwise there would be no need of Gurus or Granths. The definition is not the reality however it is only pointing to it.

Veer BhagatSingh by your description one is always progressing in Mukti/Salvation. To me that is the same as understanding if not the complementary duality of it. You are zeroing out while understanding is maxing out without actually becoming zero or infinite.

For me Mukti is much like an achievement almost to the point that the given Gene pool has created the best example of one for time immemorial. How many such happen. Very few so the rest continue till the bloom of best again happens. In a perverse way I find like Einestein Mukt in a positive way in spite of the bomb! Many of the other greater people so too. The negative Mukts will be like Hitler, hopefully he was mukt so we don't see more like him.

What you think! For sure little extreme ramblings.

Sat Sri Akal.

Gurfatehji

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am beginning to get an inkling of how this concept can be integrated in my life, I believe we live a lifetime in a day.....

I do not want to die, I like being me, I really am not keen on losing everything I have built up over the years to enter into a deathlike state, I am not sure this was the ultimate message of our Gurus. However if we take each day, and if for certain periods during the day, I die, and become nothing, I would have no objection to that, if during this period, I could behave as Bhagatji described above, then, again, I would not find that objectionable in the least.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/37913-what-does-salvation-mukti-mean-you.html

Today is all we have Jios, and we can find Mukti today, through whatever means we can, through meditation, through Seva, through our connection with God/Creator, interaction with Creation, to love Creation, care about Creation as if it were bonded with us, as if the whole universe was in tune with us, and we could play in the Milky Way, run naked on Mars, skate round the rings of Saturn, every day we get the chance to love, and not hurt, to help, not hinder, to support, not oppose. However we are human, this state if it lasted forever, would be death for me, but to wish to achieve this state on a daily basis, as well as enjoy life, and the joys that life bring, the pleasures that exist in Creation, whether it be smelling a rose, eating a pizza, or ahem other things, enjoy them, embrace them, live every day as if it were your last, as if tomorrow did not exist, attain the balance between Mukti and Life, no I do not find this concept objectionable at all

Yes Ambarsaria ji, that sounds right.

Hmm no Hitler is not considered a Mukt by Sikh reasoning. As per his actions he will be trapped in reincarnation through many joons until he gets to the human joon in which he will have a chance again at liberation. He was a horrible moral athlete. Einstein is not a good moral athlete either though not as bad as Hitler. He had many affairs while he was married. An example of a good moral athlete would be someone like Mother Teresa who was a mother to millions. She treated the sick. I think her modern equivalent would be Amma from South India, who goes around hugging random people in their thousands and relieves their suffering. She is a huge open space.

Mukti is life. Harry ji, wonderful post but I want to clarify this point. Like how some folks are good at art, some are great scientists, there exists a group of people who are great at living a good life. In the west we don't value them as much but in the east, such people were treated with such respect that people would bow down in their presence (I'm talking about Gurus and Sants). They found out ways to live life to the fullest and found ways to create an environment for others to live it to their fullest. The concept of mukti fits into this framework. It is not opposed to life. Far from it. It is life itself when lived as good as life can be lived.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37913

One who lives life in such a way is a good moral athlete. He rids himself of his own unnecessary suffering (which is most suffering out there) and becomes a cold fire for others and burns their suffering (See the examples in above post). This is one of the roles of a Guru or a Sant. In the west, they say "Jesus died for your sins". He did.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37913

As you may have now figured, these moral athletes tend to have crazy fans. Lol

Bhgat singh ji..Have you read the books that expose Mother Theresa as friend of people like the Doc of haiti who ate humans...and much more with documented evidence...

I think all babas and mother Theresa's start off with best intentions, they just cannot deal with the fact that people see God through them and end up full of ego and pride
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37913

From what I know Mother Theresa had quite a harsh regime, yet had did not quite embrace it herself

My dear brother Ambarsaria ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37913

This is a fantastic idea for a thread and I am sorry that I wasn't yet an SPN'er when you created it!

In the poll, I selected: "Merging with Akal Purakh/ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ/ Timeless Creator".

I regard this as essentially the goal of the seeker in every rich spiritual tradition of note. We must aim to come to a state where we crucify our ego, die to ourselves and become one with the Will of God - live in the Divine Will.

Union of wills, union of spirit, union of love, union of Being - we become God by grace, just as he is by nature. At the same time, we become aware that our substance, the human spirit, the ground of our soul is a Divine Spark which is always at one with Creator, even when our sensuality - our lower self - wanders away from God and becomes absorbed in ego.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37913


The best description though, that I have personally seen of salvation comes from Meister Eckhart (who else?):


"...This, then, is salvation, when we marvel at the beauty of created things and praise the beautiful providence of the Creator or when we purchase heavenly goods by our compassion for the works of creation...This path of which I have spoken is beautiful and pleasant and joyful and familiar. Let whoever has found this way seek no other and you shall find that God who is whole and entire will possess you whole and entire..."


- Meister Eckhart (1260-1328) (Sermon 30), Catholic mystic and Dominican priest



Its a very simple, earth-honouring, creation-centered view of salvation without any of the complex thinking I have just provided on Union with God - and for me that's what makes it so meaningful, profound and ultimately true.

My dear brother Gyani

Blessed Mother Theresa, in my own opinion, was a very beautiful soul, a devout and godly woman. There is a statue of her in the centre of the state of Punjab, I do believe holding her up as an exemplar of seva.

I would be wary of rumours made to discredit people. I do know that some tried to defame her by bringing up the kinds disreputable types such as the Duvalier gang in Haiti whom she "reportedly" - if you believe journalists and the late atheist thinker Christopher Hitchens - was kind too or even took donations from to feed the poor, but who are they too judge? They aren't the ones out in the streets helping starving Indians and there isn't conclusive proof of these allegations. And yet even if it were true - and I personally believe it isn't - nobody is without fault, but it certainly doesn't descredit all of the great good she did for her fellow human beings which is far more than the average person could ever achieve in a lifetime.

I will always defend the purity of that Blessed woman.