Blessing/Ardaas for Kara

Gyaniji, I talked more than 10 sikh families those visit Hazoor Sahib every year. One of my friend had been to Hazoor Sahib about 10 times but he has not confirmed this practice. Have you having any link to this matter on the website.
Regards,
Rajneesh Madhok

 
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Gyaniji,
One of my friend has replied who had been to Gurdwara Hazoor Sahib consecutively for the last 10 years: that no such tradition is applicable in Gurdwara Hazoor Sahib. He says:
As per Sri Guru Granth Sahib: "Chukar az haman heer te dar gurdast, halalas burdas shamsheere dast" there may be mistake in the pronunciation or in writing of the above lines as the words are from Persian language which I don't know. The meaning of those words are: Try to convince the enemy with all means and always fight defensive, Guru Sahib fought 14 battles by adopting defensive policy, he never fought on the cause of Zar, Zoru, Zameen, (Zar means money, Zoru--- lady, Zameen--Land) he fought the battles on the cause of INJUSTICE. He never insisted to lift the arms (Shastra) scriptures (Shastras). He is quite sure and has attended the morning prayer in Gurdwara at least 100 times. He has never seen such an occassion of washing of scriptures with blood. He says that the arms/ammunition/ scriptures are being washed daily by bringing water from Godavari river. In any Gurudwara all over the world there is no such tradition of oblation by sacrificing any creature.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/36947-blessing-ardaas-for-kara.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36947
I am sure Hon'ble members those have visited Gurudwara Hazur Sahib will throw light on the matter.
Regards,
Rajneesh Madhok

Rajneesh ji,
Just Google :Jhatka at hazoor sahib....will bring up U-tube videos and articles on this practice. IT is being practised DAILY. The Shastars are given blood tilak from a freshly slaughtered goat.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36947
just this one link is interesting.. .http://worldsikhnews.com/21%20Januar...0&%20Truth.htm

Gyaniji,
In Gurmukhi the Sword is called "Kirpan". In 1699, Guru Gobind Singh told his Sikhs at the Baisakhi Amrit Sanchar to constantly and regularly wear a KIRPAN at all times. This is the weapon for defence. The injuntion was primarily in orfer to protect the weak from tyranny and slavery.
The word Kirpan has two roots, the first root is Kirpa which means Mercy, grace, compassion, kindness and the second root is Aan which in turn means Honour, Grace, dignity. So if we unite the two words the meaning is that the dignity and honour of compassion kindness and mercy. Physically Kirpan is an instrument of Ahimsa ---Non violence. Part of Guru Gobind Singh ji's teaching:
Dehi shiva bar mohe i he --O God, give me these boons,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36947
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36947
Shubh karman se kabhun na taron--Never shall I shirk from doing good deeds,
Na daron ari son jab jai laron--- Never shall I fear when I go to fight the enemy,
Nischey kar apni jeet karon-- And with surety I shall attain victory.
I still doubt the history behind sacrificing of goats daily in Gurdwara Hazur Sahib.
Regards,
Rajneesh Madhok

rajneesh ji

Only the gentlest of criticisms here. You have quoted verses that capture the meaning of kirpan, but kirpan does not stand for ahimsa or nonviolence.You will probably get some flack for your comments. I am trying to head the flack off if possible.

A re-read and there is something else, very different


The chaupai has a different ring to it.


The kirpan does not stand for ahimsa. Non-violence is not part of Sikhi which nutures the ideal of sant and sipahi. Saint and soldier. Kirpan stands for mercy and clemency, the use of the sword to do right by humanity, to install dharma and justice, to protect the oppressed and be ready to rescue and forgive the evil ones from their own evil, as Nanak redeemed Babar and Gobind Singh gave Aurangzeb a chance to redeem himself.

Hazoori? The tilak and many other practices fall into the Hazoori rehat which is very short and very different from Tat Khalsa practice. For example, the jathedar must remain celibate, a bachelor, bind his chin with a scarf to remind him never to speak, and he may never leave the Hazoori compound.

See Flikr photostream with a pic number 11 of the jathedar. This is copyrighted otherwise I would post it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/brind/s...th/3755004000/

The origins of these practices can be discussed, but in the end their origins are most likely lost in the fog of history, misunderstood but dear to the people of the region. I have always thought that at Hazoori isolated remnants of Brahminical practice were captured from the region's past, cobbled together like a quilt, and then they became Hazoori tradition.

These are folk traditions, and folk traditions are the soul of a people. Criticize them and emotions can flare.

The jatkha of coconuts, the jatkha of goats and tilak of shastars and pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, are no longer uniquely that of Hazoori Sahib and its sangat. It has spread to the US

That "kirpa..and the AAN" bit was afavourite of Mahatma Gandhi....he never let go an opportunity to throw it in the face of the Sikhs....and He was mightily surprised at what the PEACEFUL, KIRPAN WEARING and fully AMED Sikhs in their thousands sat chanting Waheguru waheguru while the British Police armed with 12 foot long METAL CAPPED LATHIS rained blows on them and the Horse riding cavalry stomped on the injured ones on the ground..not a single Hai or a single sword came out of the SCABBARDS becasue the Akalis had pledged it would be PEACEFUL. The Christian Priest Chris Andrews who saw this happening exclaimed..Today I have seen JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF..in the thousands of peaceful Sikhs turning the other cheek. Gandhi sent a Telegram to Baba Kharrak Singh SGPC president...Congratulations..TODAY the SIKHS have WON the First battle of INDIAS INDEPENDENCE !! This was the Agitation called the MORCHA for the freedom to collect deadwood from GURU KA BAGH belonging to Harmandar sahib which the British backed MAHANT claimed was his private property. The dead wood was for the Guru ka Langgar at Harmandar sahib stoves. This Morcha was WON when the British Govt declared Sikhs could collect any firewood they liked form Guru ka Bagh.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36947
2. The SECOND TIME such an ATROCITY was carried out on PEACEFUL ARMED SIKHS was in May 1950 when a Procession of nearly 12,000 Sikhs was set upon by the POLICE of NEHRU GOVT on the streets of DELHI. The SIKHS were matching to be allowed the FREEDOM to ASK for and CHANT the SLOGAN..PUNJABI SUBA ZINDABAD....which had been declared BANNED by the Nehru Administration. Merciless Lathi Charging and stomping by horse riding Delhi police injured hundreds of the ARMED but pledged to PEACE SIKHS. A few thousand were arrested as well and later charged in courts for illegal assembly and severly fined etc...BUT not a SINGLE SWORD came out of the SCABBARDS..only WAHEGURU and Punjabi Suba Zindabad !!

3. These same SIKHS however used their weapons..against the PAKISTANI INVADER in Kashmir....1947-2011.....against the Communist CHINESE INVADER in 1962....against the Pakistani Army in 1965....against the pakistani Army in 1971....and in 1984 against those who dared to violate the SANCTITY of Harmandar sahib and 52 OTHER HISTORICAL GURDWARAS that were attacked by their own INDIAN ARMED FORCES. SO Sikhs KNOW when and where to USE the KIRPAAN....against INJUSTICE..whether its by the foreign invader or the BROTHER who has forgotten his sworn duty to DEFEND them and instead turns on them....

rajneesh madhok ji are you for real when you say the following as referring to the wearing of Kirpan by Sikhs,

You mean to say in fights during Guru Gobind Singh ji's times and later Sikhs will wear two Kirpans. One with Ahimsa symbol and the other to protect and kill the enemy!

Would it make a difference in your thinking if it was called a sword, talwar or shamsheer.

There appears to be a way of twisting elements of Sikhi in many of your posts including the fake coins, I don't know the motives as it to be plain ignorance or disdain of Sikhism or both!

Sat Sri Akal.

If I could I would rather have Kara forged by Hands of Guru.

The value is not in how gift reaches you. The values is in the gift and how you use it.

I think in Sikhi there is no Anth (end) to how things can be improved. But no standard of Sikhi is high or low, just like no two Truths are higher or lower. If you believe you can improve your life as a Sikh, go for it. If someone asks you to go to a particular town and particular shop to get the right fit, its hard.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36947
It kind of matches with the philosophy of KAHE RE BANN KHOJAN JAYEE.

You just need your KARA of IRON and a heart of IRON. The guy who makes it keeps it in his possession for a few hours. You keep it with you for years.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36947

Whatever said and done, the importance of Ardas cannot be contested.

I don't want to make confrontation on the silly points. Kindly go through the Encyclomedia of the Sikhs and decide yourself for what purpose Kirpan is being used.
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kirpan