Guru Hargobind's Hukamnama - Important

Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki feteh.

I have been struggling with an important question for some time and hope learned people here can help me, I have already asked some knowledgeable people.

In the famous book Hukamnamah by Dr Ganda Singh there are 2 hukamnamah's allegedly from Guru Hargobind, both of which at the end state not to go near meat or fish- MAAS MACCHHI DE NERE NAHI AWNA. However I have not been able to get a copy of this book, and have been told that for some reason it is no longer published?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/35536-guru-hargobinds-hukamnama-important.html

I have seen no proof authenticating these hukamnamah's apart from some stating that it is authentic as both are in Dr Ganda Singh's respected book. However

I have also read that Harinder Singh Mehboob has reported that 85 out of 87 Hukmnamae recorded in the book, Hukmnamae, of Ganda Singh are not authentic. I also know that Guru Sahib himself was a hunter which contradicts these two hukamanah’s (I don't accept the argument that the purpose of the Guru Sahibs hunting was to liberate animals btw) .

What are people’s views on these hukamanamah’s, does anyone have any further researched information? Are there other hukamnamah in this book which are contrary to gurmat (I wanted to read the whole book myself and every hukamnamah within but am finding it impossible to get a copy)

I would honestly appreciate your help.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35536

Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki feteh.

 
Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh!

Professor Mehboob was not stating a personal opinion, writing on whim, or even giving his informed opinion. He studiously analyzed the problem and backed his conclusions with meticulous research and detail. For that reason, I accept his conclusions until another scholar can refute what he says with scholarship equal to Meboob's scholarship. That has not happened. Instead of scholarship we are given wishful thinking and fanciful folklore.

I go with 85 are not authentic. I will change my mind given quality logic and quality data. Good thread you started here. Thanks

Guru hargobind ji not only hunted but also ordered Sikhs to Pick up sword and go to hunting
in his first sermon ,So either the first sermon is wrong or Hukamnamah is fake


http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.p...13#reply_45013

Vangaar: The First Sermon of Guru Hargobind Sahib
Taken from “Gur Bhari� by Pr. Satbir Singh
Translated by Admin www.tapoban.org
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35536

Guru Hargobind Sahib’s first sermon must be heard again today and applies just as much now as it did when he first gave it.

Guru Arjan Dev had been brutally tortured and embraced martyrdom, becoming an example for the Panth. The Sikhs were grief-struck and felt a sense of despair. The small Panth of Guru Nanak had been targeted by the mighty power of the Mughals.

Guru Hargobind Sahib, became the next Guru as per the orders of his father. In front of all the gathered Sikhs, Baba Buddha jee put the two swords of meeri and peeri on Guru Hargobind Sahib. Guru Sahib was dressed like and emperor and there was a kalgi (aigrette) on his dastaar.

The Dhadis, Bhai Abdullah and Bhai Nath Mal, at the hukam of Guru Hargobind Sahib sang a vaar filled with bir ras.

Then, Guru Hargobind Sahib rose and gave his first sermon to the Sikhs:

“Today the offerings that are beloved to me are good weapons and good youth. If you want my happiness, then exercise your bodies, wrestle, play gatka, go into the jungles to hunt and learn to ride horses. Weakness is now a crime to the Nation that cannot be forgiven for anyone. You will take up the sword and I now wear the sword so that the swords of tyranny and oppression will stop forever.

You have all come from far and wide today. The cool tranquillity has been stolen from not just your heart and my heart, but from the entire world. Our swords will not rest until we bring this oppression to an end.

Make day and night one. Go into the villages and light the inferno of revolution. Tell the people that we need their youth. Only that is a good youth that sacrifices itself for the cause of the Nation. We need sacred hearts and pure minds. Enshrine “pihlW mrn kbUl� in your hearts. We fear death because we have not experienced true life. We feel worry because we have not enjoyed a taste of life. We feel fear because our destination and goal seems so far off. But if you challenge death, death will flee from you. If you learn to walk with your heads held high then worry will depart. If you are determined to walk, the destination will not be so far away. Have faith in Vahiguru and all fears will vanish. If fear has left you then even death will seem like bliss.�
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35536

Guru jee continued,

“Do not think that you are too few. You are all like springs. Oceans flow out of these very springs. There are hundreds of thousands of springs like you in our Nation. When you come together and flow forward, you will create a flood.

A small and insignificant piece of wood, when made into a match, can light the entire jungle on fire. But you are humans! And furthermore, those humans whose heart has just now been scorched on hot iron plates [reference to shahidi of Guru Arjan Dev jee].

Addressing the poets in the Sangat, Guru Sahib said,

“See, God has given you the gift of poetry. When nations are built, you are the foundations. Stop all these other untimely songs and work to bring the Nation out of this deep dark pit. Tell those stories which will make the people willing to lose their skin like they would be willing to change their clothes. Fill the people of our Nation with the spirit and fervour to be like moths so they will sacrifice themselves in the flames of our cause.

Our blood has become cold. Tell us stories of Shahidi and become the furnaces that will boil our blood. Give us the passion to make the trampled Punjab and our crushed Nation rise to its feet once again.�

Speaking to the Dhadis, Guru Sahib said,

“Now is the time that your instruments should call out a challenge. Your notes should stir the Nation. The beat of your dhads should awaken the people and the bells on your bows should make hearts fill with the zeal of sacrifice.�

We must hear Guru Sahib’s message again today and rise to the challenge.

I belive if sikhs study the more "shamanistic" religions of old europe and of meso america(olmec/toltec,mayan/inca/aztec) it will help clear up this whole hunting and killing of animals mystery. It is said the the wise shamistic/earth based cults of the ancient times had such an understanding of animal life that they knew how to communicate with the animals and with nature to such an extent that the animals would come and volunteer them selves as a sacrafice. The mayan(toltec/olmec) have a deep understanding of animals, nature and "the spirit". They say that a warrior will not hesitate to take the life of an animal not so much because he is a killer or has a disregard torwards animals but because he understands how ALL of us(including guru themselves) have a "time up" in which we MUST leave this world. Not leaving or refusing to stay would disrupt the ways of "the spirit" and go against existence. The toltec teach that a warrior will pray and thank the animal for sacraficing its life and that the warrior acknowledges that one day he will also become a sacrafice to "the spirit" the same way the animal did. I will come back and put some more detailed qoutes that give a really deep and give an insight on the ways of "the warrior".
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35536

Fairly early in the Baghavad Gita it says that Arjuna look at the war line with his warriors on his side and the enemys on the other side. He looked at the other side and saw friends, cousins, warriors, scholars etc. He becomes overwhelmed by grief and looses his will to lead the war. I belive this is when Krishna(his charitee) reveals himself to Arjuna in the midst of his despair and encourages him to "full fill his duty as a ksatriya(warrior)" and that he would not be "killing" anyone for there is no death and it is god who has already stricken down the looser and given honor to the winner and that krishna is merely an instrument to full fill the flow of "existence/god/the spirit". Something to keep in mind here..

What are the sources used by Professor Satbir Singh in "Gur Bharia" where he relates this sermon? If he used a source like Suraj Partap there may be many gray areas. I think too the article may have the title of Gur Bhari.

We have also this comment from SPN mentor Gyani Jarnail Singh which reports that Principal Satbir Singh played a primary role in collecting the 52 hukamnamas, and in fact he is the one who published the book about them.


See this thread for a deeper discussion of the matter. Professor Satbir Singh may think that all 52 hukamnamas are authentic.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-s...-singh-ji.html

I don't know what source he used,.Principal Satbir Singh was a Sikh author who wrote many books about sikh Guru's.

http://www.jsks.co.in/Satbir_Singh_Ji.htm

but on the other hand I don't find any reason to disbelief him on above.Guru hargobind ji must have written this kind of sermon anytime in his life as he was the first guru to martialise the sikhs .So at some point of life he may written sikhs to pick up the swords

kds 1980 ji

Yes, the professor wrote many books.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35536
The question I raise, however, is that sources are important. Suraj Partap, for example, was written in the 19th Century, based on family anecdotes that were passed down 2 generations. I am not saying that Satbir Singh used Suraj Parkash as his source. Only that if he used unreliable sources, then the story has to be looked at as questionable.

Here is a post from tapoban I think this will answer your question
http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.p...=45013&t=45013

Principal Satbir Singh used all old sources to write his books. They are really worth reading. He used Panth Parkash (old and new) Kavi Santokh Singh, rehitnamas, persian sources and many others.

This as an unverifiable Hukamanama which contradicts Hukamana's by the 10th Master:

In fact such a hukamna would indeed contradict the one Guru Gobind Singh ji sent to his Sikhs in Kabul (ADVANCED STUDIES IN SIKHISM by Jasbir Singh and Harbans Singh.):
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35536

"Sarbat sangat Kabul Guru rakhe ga
Tusa ute asaadee bahut khusi hai
Tusi Khande da Amrit Panja to lena
Kes rakhne...ih asadee mohur hair;
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35536
Kachh, Kirpan da visah nahee karna
SARB LOH da kara hath rakhna
Dono vakat kesa dee palna karna
Sarbat sangat abhakhia da kutha
Khave naheen, Tamakoo na vartana
Bhadni tatha kanya-maran-vale so mel na rakhe
Meene, Massandei, Ramraiye ki sangat na baiso
Gurbani parhni...Waheguru, Waheguru japna
Guru kee rahat rakhnee
Sarbat sangat oopar meri khushi hai.
Patshahi Dasvi
Jeth 26, Samat 1756


To the entire sangat at Kabul.
The Guru will protect the Sangat,
I am pleased with you all.
You should take baptism by the sword, from the Five Beloveds.
Keep your hair uncut for this is a seal of the Guru,
Accept the use of shorts and a sword.
Always wear IRON KARA on your wrist,
Keep your hair clean and comb it twice a day.
Do not eat Halal (Kosher) meat,
Do not use tobacco in any form,
Have no connection with those who kill their daughters
Or permit the cutting of their children's hair.
Do not associate with Meenas, Massands and Ram-raiyas (anti-Sikh cults)
Recite the Guru's hymns
Meditate on "The Name of our Wonderful Lord",
Follow the Sikh code of discipline
I give the entire sangat my blessing)
Signature of 10th Guru
Jeth 26, 1756 Bikrami 23rd May 1699 A.D