To Cover Our Heads or Not?

seeker3k · #1 (**permalink**) 30-Mar-2011, 20:07 PM

Hello all,

I just came back to Canada from my trip to India after 5 months.
It was exciting and interesting trip. When I was in India I use to read Ajit news paper in Punjabi. One of the jathedar had the message for the Sikhs that there should be no Gurus picture or Gurbani verses on the wedding cards. He claim that cards are thrown after the wedding that is insult to Gurus and Gurbani. I sent the email to SGPC but no one replied.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/35017-to-cover-our-heads-or-not.html
My question was and still is. Is that jathedar or SGPC telling us that the pictures of the guru are real picture? AS far as I know there is no real picture of any Guru. How can that be an insult to Gurus? As far as the Gurbani is concern I can understand but still have question about it. The picture and Gurbani is printed in all papers. Those papers are thrown away and use to wipe thing. Is it not insult to Gurbani?
There is a new twist in all that. One can search google for the bani. There are thousands of pages and full listing of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on the internet. With the laptop and ebook we can read the bani every there. Even as we are eating or drinking coffee in cafe? Or in wash rooms.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35017
What is the marjayda in these cases? Should we bow and cover our head when ever we read bani on ebook?

spnadmin · #2 (**permalink**) 30-Mar-2011, 20:15 PM

seeker3k ji

Most of what you have written -- all very interesting-- is not about covering one's head whilst reading Gurbani on the Internet. You have "covered" 3 possible discussion topics. Let's see how the conversation unwinds. I may have to merge this thread with another thread about covering one's head if that is direction things take. Thanks.

Kanwaljit Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 30-Mar-2011, 22:38 PM

Quote:

My question was and still is. Is that jathedar or SGPC telling us that the pictures of the guru are real picture? AS far as I know there is no real picture of any Guru. How can that be an insult to Gurus?

True. Thinking the pictures to be Guru would be an insult.

Quote:

As far as the Gurbani is concern I can understand but still have question about it. The picture and Gurbani is printed in all papers. Those papers are thrown away and use to wipe thing. Is it not insult to Gurbani?

Traditionally the Guru Granth Sahib or Gurbani in any paper form is cremated.

Quote:

There is a new twist in all that. One can search google for the bani. There are thousands of pages and full listing of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on the internet. With the laptop and ebook we can read the bani every there. Even as we are eating or drinking coffee in cafe? Or in wash rooms.

Many people when they do Paath from Laptop or Ebook or iPod prefer to sit cross legged with their shoes off. It depends on what respect you want to give to Gurbani. Whatever you give is less. Of course I would suggest if you are reading a laptop for Baani don't use it (even to listen to music or browse) in the washroom while sitting on the thinking pot.

Quote:

What is the marjayda in these cases? Should we bow and cover our head when ever we read bani on ebook?

I guess that is why we have Maryada is to cover head with turban all the time.

Ambarsaria · #4 (**permalink**) 30-Mar-2011, 22:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker3k

Hello all,

I just came back to Canada from my trip to India after 5 months.
It was exciting and interesting trip. When I was in India I use to read Ajit news paper in Punjabi. One of the jathedar had the message for the Sikhs that there should be no Gurus picture or Gurbani verses on the wedding cards. He claim that cards are thrown after the wedding that is insult to Gurus and Gurbani. I sent the email to SGPC but no one replied.
My question was and still is. Is that jathedar or SGPC telling us that the pictures of the guru are real picture? AS far as I know there is no real picture of any Guru. How can that be an insult to Gurus? As far as the Gurbani is concern I can understand but still have question about it. The picture and Gurbani is printed in all papers. Those papers are thrown away and use to wipe thing. Is it not insult to Gurbani?
There is a new twist in all that. One can search google for the bani. There are thousands of pages and full listing of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on the internet. With the laptop and ebook we can read the bani every there. Even as we are eating or drinking coffee in cafe? Or in wash rooms.
What is the marjayda in these cases? Should we bow and cover our head when ever we read bani on ebook?

seeker3k ji some thoughts.

Quote:

What is the marjayda in these cases? Should we bow and cover our head when ever we read bani on ebook?

gurduAwry

(Gurdwara)

\) sMgq ivc jW siqgurW dy pRkwS smyN iksy is`K nUM nMgy isr nhIN bYTxw cwhIdw[ sMgq ivc is`K iesqrIAW leI prdw krnw jW GuMf k`Fxw gurmiq ivru`D hY[

Head to be covered while sitting in a religious congregation or while Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is in “Prakash”, i.e.,

§ Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is open and placed in a location with due care as per Sikh Rehat Maryada including e.g.,
o the clean area,
o respectable accommodation for Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to be respectfully and easily opened and be able to read without holding in one’s hand(s),
o a “Chananee” (cloth garment prepared in love and care to be strung above Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji),
o a “Chaur” (a hand held fanning device) and

gurimq dI rihxI

(Living as per Gurmit)

x) is`K leI kCihry qy dsqwr qoN Cut puSwk sMbMDI bwkI koeI pwbMdI nhIN[ is`K iesqrI dsqwr sjwey jW nw
sjwey, dovyN TIk hn[

Sikh has no dress limitations beyond wearing of Turban and “Kachehra” (undergarment). For a Sikh female, the person may wear turban or not is of free choice.

So it is pretty clear that there are very specific times that Head covering is required as per the quotes from Sikh Rehat Maryada.

Equally importantly one has to consider the following from a common sense perspective,

Quote:

Is your inner psyche heavily polluted with Kam. Karodh, Lobh, Moh and Ahankar while such a question crops in your mind and you are thinking of whether to cover your head or not!

- You need to talk to your inner self!

Quote:

If the answer to any of the above five is a strong yes, I humbly submit that you ain’t going to gain much from covering your head or doing any other fake rituals

If the answer is that you have reasonable balance, your psyche will itself or should suggest necessary ways of humility, respect and best ways to satisfy your yearning for knowledge

Example:

I knew a Nirankari follower who would purposely put the Nitnem and other Gurbani extract books on the toilet tank in the washroom. I assume that outwardly the object was a show-off (ego – Ahankar) to emphasize that these are just books like magazines or Harlequin novels.

What can be expected from such a person!
Not much really as to be so brain washed and not recognize that that before learning comes your wisdom to learn. If you are caught up in such a façade you wouldn’t go very far.

That is what happened and continues to happen and the person is not a baby to not be able to figure it out if wished.

Again in terms of cards and writings or depiction of Guru persona, I believe it is personal and respectful decision that needs to be taken by the people initiating such request. Again humility, respect, common sense can usually guide. To talk about dis-respect and flag the wedding cards for such, one has to then ban all the newspapers as many have Gurbani lines and similar persona painting depictions. Newspapers perhaps see more perverse and dis-respectful uses and disposition that the matter becomes irrelevant.

I hope that is helpful for the dialog.

Sat Sri Akal.

hpannu · #5 (**permalink**) 31-Mar-2011, 00:26 AM

Dear Sangat Members - for a SIKH head has to be covered all the time. Question of head to be covered while only reading Gurbani is absurd. As far as pictures are concerned they are just artists representation of the Gurus - Seeker3k Ji is right -it's just like any other picture. People doing dhoop or decorating them is against SIKHI !
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35017
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35017

Just my 2 cents.

ਭੁਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬਖਸ਼ ਦੇਣਾ ਜੀ

ਦਾਸ - ਹਰਜੋਤ ਸਿੰਘ

Ambarsaria · #6 (**permalink**) 31-Mar-2011, 00:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpannu

Dear Sangat Members - for a SIKH head has to be covered all the time. Question of head to be covered while only reading Gurbani is absurd. As far as pictures are concerned they are just artists representation of the Gurus - Seeker3k Ji is right -it's just like any other picture. People doing dhoop or decorating them is against SIKHI !

Just my 2 cents.

ਭੁਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬਖਸ਼ ਦੇਣਾ ਜੀ

ਦਾਸ - ਹਰਜੋਤ ਸਿੰਘ

hpannu ji I read the context of the question to be for all children, females, kurehatiye male/female sikhs (sehajdhari or who have cut their hair)! The Kurehatiye are still Sikhs!

I believe Sikh Rehat Maryada also describes it in similar context.

Sat Sri Akal.

spnadmin · #7 (**permalink**) 31-Mar-2011, 00:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

hpannu ji I read the context of the question to be for all children, females, kurehatiye male/female sikhs (sehajdhari or who have cut their hair)! The Kurehatiye are still Sikhs!

I believe Sikh Rehat Maryada also describes it in similar context.

Sat Sri Akal.

You have put your finger on the crux of an ongoing issue that stands behind questions that should be simple and have simple answers. Not so!

Everything depends on where one stands in relation to debates going back to the late 19th Century. Notably strain between Chief Khalsa Diwan and Panch Khalsa Diwan, but not limited to it. The SRM was too loose for some, too restrictive for others. So there it stands as the broad middle lane. The debate continues.

hpannu · #8 (**permalink**) 31-Mar-2011, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

hpannu ji I read the context of the question to be for all children, females, kurehatiye male/female sikhs (sehajdhari or who have cut their hair)! The Kurehatiye are still Sikhs!

I believe Sikh Rehat Maryada also describes it in similar context.

Sat Sri Akal.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ ॥

ਵੀਰ ਜੀ - If a person calls himself a SIKH - then he should cover his head all the time. Not just when going to Gurduara Sahib or doing Nitnem. Yes, this applies to everyone, including kids and females .......

SehajDhari is a different topic by itself and so is Kurehtiye. for example - a person cannot call himself Sehajdhari Sikh all his life. Sehajdhari is a person who is on path to become GURU KA SIKH - meaning day by day he is working towards it. Now - a person cannot call himself Sehajdhari if he was Sehajdhari in 70's, 80's, 90's ....... and still calls himself Sehajdhari. That concludes he is not on his way to GURU KA SIKH ........

Recently, last year there was a incident @ our Gurduara Sahib. where a person didn't cover his head in the Darbar Hall after Sukhasan was done. When questioned his answer was GOD is everywhere. Now a days - people are under the impression that we have to do this only when needed. It's not on a need be basis.

Daas,
Harjot Singh

Ambarsaria · #9 (**permalink**) 31-Mar-2011, 03:08 AM

Sorry hpannu ji with the following you are rewriting Sikh Rehat Maryada,

Quote:

Not just when going to Gurduara Sahib or doing Nitnem. Yes, this applies to everyone, including kids and females .......

Sorry don't know where you grew up it must be very polished and City type locale or private school or highly religious family intolerant of less than perfect Sikhs.

This is not Guruan's land like Amritsar or Punjab or many villages that make this land.

SehajDhari is a different topic by itself and so is Kurehtiye.

Sorry again it is not a different topic unless you want to make it so. It is covered as a Kurehat and that is how it is with no definition of times that you have inserted. One cannot take this or leave that or add something else in Sikh Rehat Maryada unless it is done through "Gur Matah" per Sikh Rehat Maryada.

Of course striving for the ideal and living the ideal is good.

If you looking for purest of the pure (No Kurehatiye or Tankhayeah (Rehat deviation)), let me know if you are one or know someone who is!

Sat Sri Akal.