The God Element

CuriousCour · #1 (**permalink**) 07-Mar-2011, 08:51 AM

Why does the god element get incorporated into the message.Is it a way to get people to surrender and conform to the teachings?Because if not they won't be saved from harm and unpleasantness?
"The goal of human life is to break the cycle of birth's and deaths and merge with God."..How do the guru's know this is the truth?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/34754-the-god-element.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34754
And if you believe it is true because they've said it is, is that not blindly following?

I think that the gurus deliver valuable principles but why does god come into it?
*

msbaath · #2 (**permalink**) 07-Mar-2011, 16:44 PM

CuriousCour ji
there is evidence of god everywhere, all this clever creation cant be a spontaeous accident
and you say we cant be sure if gurus are speaking the truth
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34754
i agree with you we need to be skeptical
but the proof that gurus are a trustworthty source is very evident
two of our gurus have sacrificed their life for their beleif and philosophy
that means they were very sure of what they were saying
had they said something thats not true that would have implied that they are dishonest. and i dont believe a dishonest person can sacrifice his life for something
besides what gurus say is confirmed by enlightened persons of all ages and places
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34754
i dont know about you but all my skepticism has died its own death
we have examples of people who die and kill in expectation of a heaven and hooris but they are fools(fools rush where angels fear to tread)

spnadmin · #3 (**permalink**) 07-Mar-2011, 20:25 PM

angie ji

I agree with your point of view. Just a factual correction: more than 2 of our gurus sacrificed their lives for what we believe.

Kanwaljit Singh · #4 (**permalink**) 08-Mar-2011, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Why does the god element get incorporated into the message.Is it a way to get people to surrender and conform to the teachings?Because if not they won't be saved from harm and unpleasantness?
"The goal of human life is to break the cycle of birth's and deaths and merge with God."..How do the guru's know this is the truth?
And if you believe it is true because they've said it is, is that not blindly following?
I think that the gurus deliver valuable principles but why does god come into it?

First of all, it is nice you see the valuable principles Guru has given us. So anything else Guru has given us is valuable too. Including the concept of God. And now when he has given us concept of God, you have to forget any other God concept anyone else has given you. You have to unlearn about God to the point that God exists. Guru says God exists. And now you have to get into the ocean of pearls of Guru Granth Sahib. And find out about God. For this definition and understanding of God will be totally different from what you have heard so far.

Archived_member14 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-Mar-2011, 05:46 AM

Msbaath ji,

Quote:
“besides what gurus say is confirmed by enlightened persons of all ages and places”

Since it has always been my suspicion that this might be the case but not having had any clear evidence, I am not singling you out in asking you these questions.

From general observation I have come to the conclusion that Hindus and Sikhs respect the Buddha to a lesser or larger degree. If anyone amongst them really believed that he was enlightened, this could however only be as a result of hearsay. I am not sure if you include the Buddha in the “enlightened persons of all ages and places” referred to above. But if you have, I’d like to ask you this:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34754

Did the Buddha believe in God? Are his teachings aimed at the realization of God’s existence?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34754

I ask this in order to help clear my suspicion, but of course you are not obliged to answer if you do not want to.

In a short while I leave and will be away for three days and therefore will not be able to respond.

Kanwaljit Singh · #6 (**permalink**) 08-Mar-2011, 07:02 AM

Budhha didn't believe in existence of God, nor he asked to go for it. For he gave his followers an important task, to realize their own existence. To make their own existence meaningful, to connect to themselves. I assume that once you are at peace with yourself, you can ask where you came from and where you will go. We as Sikhs try and realize that we came from infinity and we go towards infinity and this present is just a part of that cycle. You are trying to mix two approaches.

Archived_member14 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-Mar-2011, 07:26 AM

Kjsinghhyd ji,

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjsinghhyd

Budhha didn't believe in existence of God, nor he asked to go for it. For he gave his followers an important task, to realize their own existence. To make their own existence meaningful, to connect to themselves. I assume that once you are at peace with yourself, you can ask where you came from and where you will go. We as Sikhs try and realize that we came from infinity and we go towards infinity and this present is just a part of that cycle. You are trying to mix two approaches.

Thank you for expressing your own understanding on this matter.

I have no intention to mix any two approaches, nor do I even take such things as being an “approach”, but was responding to Masbaath’s suggestion that all enlightened persons came to the same conclusion about the existence of God. Now either the Buddha was not an enlightened individual since he did not believe in the existence of God, or he did in fact believe in it but just didn’t make a categorical statement about it.

What I gather from your own statements is that it doesn’t matter if one believes in God or not, only that there is more than one way to achieve life’s goal. So I must ask you this; what do you understand by ‘enlightenment’. And to become enlightened is to be so, to what?

Now I must leave immediately.
Thanks.

Kanwaljit Singh · #8 (**permalink**) 08-Mar-2011, 07:43 AM

Quote:

What I gather from your own statements is that it doesn’t matter if one believes in God or not

For Budhhists it doesn't matter if they believe in God or not. They do believe in Nirvana and ending cycle of Life and Death. We call this stage free from cycle as being that of merging with Waheguru. Buddhists on the other hand, don't mention God literally. And if you try and do research, they reject Creator of Universe as a deity or person. They reject the idea of trying to describe how the Universe was created. We reject it too. It is something which cannot be explained. For us, God is the Universe, God is the Truth. And such impersonal definition of God finds acceptance with Buddhists too. They reject god born on the 7th sky and creating Adam and Eve in 6 days concept.

Kanwaljit Singh · #9 (**permalink**) 08-Mar-2011, 07:48 AM

Suggested Reading:
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/N...dakh_%26_Tibet