Bani Pro - Good Pronunciation?

Ishna · #1 (**permalink**) 23-Jan-2011, 18:40 PM

Hello

Has anyone here listened to the Bani Pro CDs by Rajnarind Kaur? Is the pronunciation accurate? I find it challenging at times to keep up with Dya Singh ji and she is much slower and clearer. I just don't want to fall into bad habits.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/34252-bani-pro-good-pronunciation.html

Many thanks in advance.

Ishna
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Gyani Jarnail Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 24-Jan-2011, 04:49 AM

READ AT YOUR OWN PACE. the GURU is for ONE TO ONE DEALING..not dependant on THIRD PARTY....dont fall into that trap....Get a physically viisble GUTKA and READ the words...slowly and surely...

Ishna · #3 (**permalink**) 24-Jan-2011, 07:56 AM

Okay, not the response I was expecting...

Gyani ji

I have my physical gutka but I have no one to teach me the correct pronounciation of the words. Reading transliteration can only convey part of the nuance of spoken pronounciation.

It's like trying to learn how to speak regular Punjabi without actually hearing the words.

I rotate between:

* shallow listening to the kirtan which I can't understand but I realise repeated exposure to the words will help familiarise me to their sounds.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252
* concerted effort trying to learn how to sing the banis myself which is hard when your only reference to pronounciation is going a million words a minute
* concentrated reading of English translations of nitnem bania and other shabads to actually understand in my own language

I don't believe I'm relying on third parties however I need to start learning somewhere, right?

Due to the confusion over siharis and unkars, etc, I want to make sure Rajnarind Kaur is pronouncing her bania correctly so I don't learn to pronounce it incorrectly.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252

Ultimately the aim of learning is so I will KNOW how to do it MYSELF, correctly.

Ishna

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #4 (**permalink**) 24-Jan-2011, 14:35 PM

Ishna Ji..GURBANI is not written or pronounced in siolation..its mostly PUNJABI..a Vibrant living language. Punjabi is like the FOREST..and one will have to enter the Forest..looking at individual trees wont do...Lots of people MISS the FOREST for the trees.
The best example that answers all questions is in Gurbani itself....JION GUNGGEH MATHYEE KHAYEE....a situation in which a DEAF DUMB MUTE has tasted a "sweet meat"...so HOW is he going to tell you how that tasted ?? The ONLY way is for him to pass YOU a "piece" of that mathayee and YOU taste it yourslef and decide. The GURU left us the "piece"..a really huge piece as big as 1429 pages..and we can taste it bit by bit...NO HURRY....!!! Lots of people take the "easy" way out...they skip reading the book..and watch the "MOVIE" instead...yet others are too lazy to even spend two hours at the Movie theater..so they read the REVIEW...yet others just watch the TRAILER.. yet many more just watch the Five second Advertisement...yet others just see the Movie AD in the Daily Newspaper..or the Movie Poster on the Roadside....and are SATISFIED...... THE GURU is much much more than a mere "BOOK"....the "movie" is watching kirtan darbars...etc etc....attending gurdwara...having a CD in the Car audio player..etc etc...ALL are STEPS..BUT NOT the DESTINATION....the JAPJI is in PURE PUNJABI and is 38 STEPS...just to get us all GOING !!! BEGIN CLIMBING....JIOS...the HIGHER YOU GO..the more magnifiecent the VIEW form the TOP GETS...but you have to CLIMB YOURSELF..not look at Flickr Accounts full of PHOTO VIEWS of "others"..a PERSONAL one to one visit to Darbar sahib is so vastly DIFFERENT FROM all the hundreds of thousands of beautiful photos taken by the worlds best accomplished photographers with the most expensive cameras..videos..etc etc....BECAUSE as is said in GURBANI..DITTEH SABHEH THAAVN..nahin tujh jaisah..a EYE WITTNESS ACCOUNT..a FIRST PERSON ACCOUNT has no EQUAL.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252
Just remember how lucky we are...in 1469...just how much time did anyone have of "knowing" Guru nanak ji in PERSON..or the rest of the Gurus...WE HAVE them by our isde 24/7..365 days of our LIVES....anytime..all the time....those people learnt Gurbani...with utmost LIMITED resources...we are in a much better position....much much better..DONT UNDER ESTIMATE YOURSELF.

cheerlea der

Ishna · #5 (**permalink**) 24-Jan-2011, 15:49 PM

Thank you for your efforts Gyani ji, but I'll be honest and admit I don't understand why my wanting to learn how to sing kirtan myself is an issue?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252

And I'm not sure how I'm presenting to you that I'm lazy and trying to take the easy way out by learning how to read Gurmukhi and speak the words of the bani out loud and correctly. I would be offended by you comparing my endeavour to trying to watch the trailer of the Sikh movie, but I'm sure you're not trying to be malicious.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252

The easy way out would be for me to say stuff it, I'll just stick with English!

Oh well.

Ishna

Ishna · #6 (**permalink**) 24-Jan-2011, 15:52 PM

Also, if the issue is me not knowing how to speak Punjabi, trust me, it's not for lack of trying to find a teacher here in my home town.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252

Since a teacher for Punjabi language is not readily available, I would like to teach myself how to sing my daily nitnem in Punjabi. Mimicry is the best I can do right now.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252

Ishna

Roop Kaur · #7 (**permalink**) 24-Jan-2011, 15:59 PM

Ah, I know exactly what you are trying to say Ishna ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252

It's just like me ... I tried to learn Farsi a while back but found it extremely difficult in that I wasn't sure whether my pronunciation was right. I didn't want to go make a fool of myself by saying a word wrong here or there when conversing with someone in the language.

Is there some youtube link to Rajnarind Kaur's bani-pro cd? Or some online link which i can sample? I just tried to youtube it and failed to find anything, but haven't properly googled it as i'm just a tad busy for the next few hours. But I'll definitely try and get back to you! I'd like to think my punjabi is quite good, so I should be able to suss out the pronunciation.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252

Good luck!

Rab rakha

Ishna · #8 (**permalink**) 24-Jan-2011, 16:06 PM

Roop Kaur ji,

Yay, I'm not insane!!

I've had a look around and this site appears to provide the tracks without selling the CD (it would be violation of TOS to post link to commercial site):

http://music.raag.fm/Shabad%20Gurban...Rajnarind_Kaur
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252

Apologies to the mods if this link is inappropriate.

Thank you for any advice you can provide, Roop Kaur ji!

Ishna

Roop Kaur · #9 (**permalink**) 24-Jan-2011, 17:14 PM

Hi again Ishna Ji!

So I just looked at and listened to some of the Japji Sahib ... I must say, her punjabi is quite AWESOME! There are a few things which I might say differently, but 99.999% of it is pretty spot on! Like for example, the line "Ajuni sai bhang" ... she says "Aaajuni sai bhang"
I'd say it more like this -

YouTube - Japji Sahib - Sikh Prayer

- "Ajooni" (btw, I think this link is also quite easy to follow along with, you may have heard it already)

I think you should go along with her, as she is much slower and easier to understand, but if you're unsure about something, just youtube it - or ask your friendly SPN'ers of course hehe

Nice find btw, I might even use this link ... I find that the youtube japji sahib that I listen to are far too fast sometimes, and some kind of just mumble it - I guess that comes with decades of reading it daily.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34252

P.S - Although I could speak punjabi before i could even speak english, I may be wrong ... so i hope some of our other wiser friends can correct me if i am wrong.

Hope that helps Ishna ji ... I don't make sense sometimes, a hundred million things just go through my head at the same time and I just blurt them out haha

Rab Rakha!