A Few Questions From Me

I've only started reading the granth recently, and I'm not very far but I have some questions.


1] sikhism require you to pray to god, implying that god wants you to pray to him. Wanting to be praised is a human trait, and surely god is something much greater than human emotions etc, so why would he need/want praise from mere humans? This to me suggests a narcissist quality that one would not expect from a force greater/responsible for creating everything.


2] Similarly, this suggests that god will react to the actions of humans emotionally, meaning he will be pleased with some actions (acting good, praying) and angry at other actions (adultery, dishonesty etc). This again conflicts with the idea of god imo, if god is the creator and something which we cannot possibly ever understand as he is out of our realm, then how is it possible for us to affect him, let alone be able to make him angry/happy.

3] If you want to believe that there is a god and he does show emotion, then why would he enable himself to feel emotion? Or create something which he has no control over that could affect his emotion? For example I wouldnt put my cat in a box with a dog because even tho its gully it might still get killed, there is a chance that cats and dogs get along but why would I take that chance?

4] Sikhism involves the gurus, who were in INDIA. Therefore the msg of sikhism first came to a section of the world. What about the rest of the world? Are they just unlucky/have to wait till the next life? If god really did want to make his message known, why not utilise some better form of communication where he could get his message across, after all he is god and the creator right? Does it not seem weird that god would make so little effort to become known and have one universal religion, and in fact rely on human gurus to carry out the huge task of spreading the word of his existence?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/32955-a-few-questions-from-me.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32955

5] Finally the hindu gods are mentioned, are sikhs expected to believe that the hindu gods existed, like a human with an elephant head etc?

Please do not link me to articles from scholars and just reply to me yourself, and include granth quotes if necessary.

Thanks

 
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Dear Shanger ji

Welcome to the board. I will attempt to answer your questions from my own point of view.

1. I don't think God wants us to sing Its praises because It likes to hear them, but because it elevates the human conscience by focusing it on totally awesome qualities, brings peace to your mind enabling you to live a higher Truth and be a better person. It help a person link themselves to God spiritually so they might merge with God once this physical life has passed.

2. Where have you got the idea that God is happy and rewards us for good deeds, and is angry and punishes us for our bad ones? We reward or punish ourselves with nearness or separatedness from God.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32955

3. Where have you got the idea that God has emotions in the same way humans do? God is beyond human comprehension (even declaring It beyond comprehension falls short), and I don't think anyone can say whether It feels, or if It feels in the same way humans do.

4. I don't think the Sikh conception of God is necessarily an interfering force. It is not a deity in the same sense that Jehova (Christain God) is, or any other deity I've come across (including Allah). It is an energy, not a person with a human personality. Guru Nanak was enlightened, had realised God, his light was SO BRIGHT because his connection to God was so strong. If others in the world were able to achieve that state of mind then they would probably have come to similar conclusions. It just so happens that Guru Nanak in India figured it out first!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32955

I don't think it's a fault of God "making so little effort to become known" but more humans making so little effort (by way of our own slow evolution) to realise God.

5. Hindu Gods are mentioned because Guru Nanak was speaking to Hindus. When he was speaking to Muslims he spoke of Allah. Whether or not these deities exist bears no significance for a Sikh because a Sikh is only concerned with the One Universal Creative Force. When you read about God being Shiva, Brahma and Vishnu, try reading it as "the destroying force, the creative force and the sustaining force" and you might get more of an idea of the totally all-encompassing, singular God-force.

I'm at work and can't supply quotes from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji (you might like to capitalise Granth please as you are addressing Sikhs who value their sacred scripture very highly and it would be a token of respect).

I hope I've been able to address your points. I am not far along the Sikh path and others may be able to answer more succinctly.

Ishna

Thanks

I don't see how singing praise can elevate the human concious/enable you to be a better person any more than doing good deeds such as charity work, helping others etc. Wouldn't living a life with good morals be sufficient?

I could be wrong but I thought that sikhs beleive that if you live a good life you get reincarnated at a higher level (or reach salvation if you live a fairly perfect life), and if you live a bad life you carry on through the cycle possibly in a lower ranking form.

To react to actions of humans in such a way as I just described above does not seem beyond human comprehension.


I can't really respond to this as I do not know enough about Guru Nanak. How would you describe his state of mind though?


Ok I'll use caps, and thanks for the response.

No use of all caps please. If that is what you are talking about. It is a breach of forum etiquette and looks like screaming. Sri Guru Granth Sahib is fine - upper and lower case.

Thanks, spnadmin
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32955

Dear Shanger Ji,
I'll give your questions a go though I think Ishna Ji captured the essence very well.

Good deeds and a moral life are most definitely important. If you are not a good person, all the hymns in the world won't help you. However, the purpose of prayer and singing kirtan is not for the benefit of God but for our own benefit. By focussing on the divine we are less easily seduced by influences trying to take us away from a good and spiritual path. By focussing on Waheguru, we are more likely to imbibe His good qualities, eg loving all, tolerance, standing up for the downtrodden. It also stops us wasting our time on useless pursuits that do not help us further ourselves. It also helps you learn the teachings as unless we understand our instructions how can we follow them to become good people and good Sikhs? Also by praying we realise that all is in God's will and that is very humbling so it stops you thinking above your station.

The concept of God in Sikhism is all loving as God has created all and is in each and every one of us. If He hates us then He hates Himslef too. BTW God is not a person but humans are lacking language to express it any other way. Many Sikhs believe the reincarnation references are relating to within this lifetime. When a person moves towards the spiritual path and connects to Waheguru, they are reborn as a new person in a new life. When they get seduced by maya (bad influences) they die spiritually as they move away from God, their support. That is also how we create our own heaven and hell on Earth. It is humans who punish-others and ourselves (sometimes unfairly which accounts for all the bad things on Earth).

The only emotion belonging to God is love and compassion. We should endeavour to make these the primary emotions in ourselves too. God is not human so therefore human characteristics do not apply. We are a small portion of His creation and that is a very humbling thought.

The Guru's travelled extensively so the message was never only in India.
God is using a wonderful form of communication and Sikhi is spreading further now with the internet and media and many other tools at its disposal. There were other enlightened people too in the past but their messages got distorted over time by people. The Guru's were smart enough to know this happens so they wrote down their teachings firsthand so power crazy men couldn't distort their teachings. They also made sure that we don't have anymore living Guru's so the message would not be distorted for personal gain. Therefore, the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is equivalent to a living Guru and is therefore much more than a holy book for us-it is our teacher and mentor, our leader and spiritual guide.

They were used as examples to teach lessons so ordinary people could understand. Education at that time was not widespread so the Guru's used the mythological stories as a means of communication. It does not mean we believe in them. Equally the Guru's have also used examples from other faiths and cultures depending on where they were when those shabads (hymns) were written. Again it does not endorse all those beliefs but they are used as analogies/illustrations. You need to read the entire shabad to understand the context-never look at single lines.

Best wishes in your quest for knowledge. Any more questions please feel free to ask,
Jasleen :happykaur:

Hi Shanger ji, thanks for responding. I hope I can clarify. Findingmyway has already provided extrapolation so I'll (try to!) be brief.

Living a moral life is very important. Singing praise helps you feel inspired to live a moral life. It gives you an idea how to live truthfully. It helps put your own tiny existence into context, makes you feel part of something bigger, and gives you strength in the face of that which would challenge your truthful living endeavours.


This concept has nothing to do with God deciding "Ishna, you've been a baaaaaad babysitter ('scuse Simpsons reference, hehehe!) and becuase of that I personally will see to it that you pay for it in your next life". If you are bad person, you will pay for it by missing out on linking with the Divine. If you subscribe to the concept of reincarnation in other lives (personally I do but I admit to not having researched this aspect thoroughly as I see it of little consequense to me personally as long as I'm trying my best to be a good person, whatever happens happens I figure) I still believe it is not God who personally decides your fate but the action of Karma which determines who/where/what you will be the next time around. God is without fear and without hatred (see Mul Mantar).


In the first instance, read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and read Guru Nanak's shabads. You might also like to visit here and read a bit about Guru Nanak's life: The Sikh Religion, Volume 1 by Max Arthur MacAuliffe .


I meant to use sentance case to capitalise the 'G' in Granth. Sorry I was not more specific.

Philosophy and spirituallity aren't things one can learn quickly. I'm still full of questions and there are many things I don't understand. I have researched Sikhi as much as I can over the years and it seems to me personally to be a reasonably logical and pure religion/spirituality. The rest I will learn in time if I have to.

I hope I've helped clarify my points.

Ishna

SINGING.........ah.......
taken to be mere "mouthing" accompanied by musical instruments..shiny attractive clothes, matching wajas, tablas, gatras, turbans and of course the ebst lighting and stage decor and satellite broadcasting...and what not....
ITS NOT. This is a tiny tiny part of what "singing" means..

IN Gurbani..the Divine Message..meant to be SUNG...the word SINGING means PRACTISE...as in the English langauge METAPHORS..."sing the Obama Tune..Singh Obamas Praises..blah blah blah.." Its obvious that to sing the Obama Tune one is not required to have a waja and tabla or guitar....although it could be accomodated !! BUT the Practise and Active PROPOGATION of "OBAMA" (policies and all that stuff) is COMPULSORY.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32955

IN GURBANI too..its the ACTIVE PARTICIPATION THROUGH REGULAR PERSONL PRACTISE..of the TEACHINGS OF GURBANI ...is whats meant to be..IS DUNIYA MEHN KIRTAN PARDHAANA !! I ma very very sure Guru Ji didnt mean that in the way of Satellite Broadcasting of Gurbani Kirtan Darbars and Mahaan Kirtan Samagams recorded LIVE on the best equipped stages, glittering lights, laser shows, shiny gold wajas and and all....................???? IS that HOW "Kirtan is Pardhaana..SUPREME " ??? Just yesterday i watched the Swami Ramanand Show (YOGA) on Satellite TV..He was dancing/Prancing on STAGE in front of a Live audience of YOGA practioners..and he was SINGING a SHABAD of Gurbani...while jumping up and down..and the Background showed pics of Guru nanak ji Guru gobind Singh Ji and lots of others Bhagwan Krishan Bhagwan Raam and even Mahatma Gandhi etc etc..To many that would also go as ..KIRTAN...SINGING the Praises of "god" and suppsoe that makes GOD so GLAD ???

IS JUGG MEHN KIRTAN PARDHAANA..means its the PRACTISE and FOLLOWING of the TEACHINGS of GURBANI that are PARDHAANA...that will CHANGE YOUR LIVES for the BETTER....SING "His Praises"..means FOLLOW in HIS FOOTSTEPS....which are for example...Treat all mankind as Brothers.... equals..worthy of all the love and respect..treat all Nature as YOUR OWN POSESSION..to be preserved..treasured for all...treat the poor and the downtrodden with Love and respect...SHARE and share alike with all..be HONEST...BE TRUTHFUL...BE KIND...1429 A3 Size Pages all FULL of "His Praises"..for us to follow...lets get the ingredients together..bake the Cake and EAT IT...THAAL WICH TEEN WASTOO PAIYEEO.....PRACTICAL WORK..not simply get a waja and tabla and SING the RECIPE !!! It will sound so musical..you may even go to sleep listening to the soothing sounds..BUT YOU WILL NEVER EAT THE CAKE..TASTE THE CAKE..BENEFIT FROM EATING THE CAKE...you will wake up HUNGRY !!! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE !!! JIOS.....cheerlea der

Appreciate the replies, I will go through them one by one.

In my opinion the first part of what you have just said can translate to "we must pray to distract/keep ourselves busy so that we don't commit sins." Many people can successfully use their time constructively, and do not need to pray to help themselves become a better person. That time could be spent doing charity work or some other good deed, which would still be for our benefit in terms of being a better person.
I do agree that it is important to read the Granth as instructions are given, but why is there a need for such a large portion to be praises to god?

Well I said that it appears that God rewards and punishes certain actions, from what you said it still seems to me that
"When a person moves towards the spiritual path and connects to Waheguru, they are reborn as a new person in a new life." = good deed which pleases god so REWARD.
"When they get seduced by maya (bad influences) they die spiritually as they move away from God, their support." = bad deed which god does not like so punishment.

You didn't really answer that question, if the only emotion belonging to god is love and compassion then why would he create an earth which would have so much evil in it? If god has love for his creations then again that is like me putting my cat in a box with a dog. Also if god is god then he would have known that the world would be this way surely.

This is a reasonable answer, as I am still learning, may I please ask what the Granth says will happen to people who die who during their life
1] were good people but do not follow any religion
2] were good people but follow a religion other than sikhism

Big thanks for your reply brother.

But similarly just doing good deeds and living a live can make you feel inspired enough to live a moral life?


It seems to me that if you believe what you just wrote, you believe that karma is a body/law which can do things that either god can't do or can't prevent?


Thank you I will read.

I have follow up questions on your reply, thanks for the response brother.