Sikhs For Change: Language - A barrier for New Sikhs?

Learning Punjabi to appropriately read or learn of the Punjabi scriptures and writings is considered a small step towards learning about Sikhism should one need to do so. Many noble Sikhs have translated the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji into English and Romanic for the purposes of such truth seekers and scholars. The Sikhs are a warrior race and are proud for being so, each individual is the upholder of the honour and good name of his faith and retains metaphorically the sword of righteousness at his side to fight oppression, injustice and tyranny.

I feel you are undergoing some sort of transitional uncertainty regarding your faith and belief. I wish you well in your journey. The current mass migration of Islamic, Russians, Europeans and Asians is actively engineered to bring in cheap labour from labour rich nations into this under populated contender with the same. It is a fact regardless of whether you wish to deem it so. Downsizing the economies of other nations to encourage emigration to these shores only for these hapless victims to be verbally assaulted and set upon by the very same said governments profiting from the hard work, labour and toil by native indigenous louts as paki’s etc is the name of the game, dear innocent or naive tony ji. Politics is a terrible business. Evolution matters are best reserved for forums designated for them.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/new-to-sikhism/4771-sikhs-change-language-barrier-new-sikhs.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771

The religious were in times of yore the superior thinking spiritual being. The state indoctrinated or educated minions churned out from the corridors of academia seek to devalue by derision these people and do so many methods. Learning Punjabi is very easy as is English for the native Punjabi. Whether Religion, Philosophy, Science or the Literati, these institutions require protection from undue criticism and aggression from sceptics who assault what they cannot understand. English seems to have taken the place of the global language unfortunately. It’s hardly what we could refer to as a problem is it now...?

 
Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh!

I happen to be a state educated minion as you put it but have no desire to derise anyone let alone religious leaders. Whilst i have only recently called my self a Sikh i believe i have been a Sikh in my values for a long time and have no transitional uncertianty in my faith or believe, whilst I am now learning panjabi it was a very kind Sikh who first translated Ik oan kaar for me and then many more prayers that brought me a desire to learn more of the Guru ji's teaching. It was this kindness and willingness to translate that brought another person to Sikhism. You also bring up the subject of racism. my 2 children have suffered this but not at the hands of native indigenous louts but by young Sikhs at panjabi school. My children did not retaliate but forgave them as they are brought up to be true Sikhs leading by example, treating others as they would like to be treated not as they are treated, As for bringing cheap labour here guilty as charged but then how many call centers are now based in india boasting the Indian economy. So the finger again pionts both ways. this thread though is not about economy or racism, Its about making Sikhism available to the mass's and showing them there is a better way of life than for earthly greed and if that means the Gudwaras preaching in the language of the country there in then thats what we should all be working towards not holding on to pride in the past. Pride is a sin, living in the past has no future, what does it matter what language the words in come as long as message is understood.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771
please if you have suffered racism or feel you are being unfairly treated then seek advise from a solicitor, England has an Equal oppertunities policy which if not followed then is punishable by law. At least were're trying even if some may be failing which is more than can be said about some other countries
Tony

Dear God Almighty !!!I do not know or care for you or your family and have no need for compassion from you or any other, desist from this political game playing. To answer your point, against my better judgment, each pandit and holy man who ever read my palm or my fate remarked upon how glowing my good fortune is. know my fate writer well and observe him ruining many lives, societies and nations. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is available widely in many languages, end of matter. The small courtesy on your part to learn Punjabi you find so abusive or threatening is symptomatic moreover of your devotion to your faith than any shortcoming of the part of Sikhism. Cease from baiting me. I am and have always been known as an extremely happy disposition person, my only problem is the pig that holds me captive here, for which I can provide no proof. If you find that abusive that is your prerogative. The matter is hereafter closed from my end.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771

If I where any less a man I would take your postings as offensive however I rise above and only offer you good will. You have anger in your heart and i feel compansion for you. I will offer you something I once read, cant remember exactly where or which Guru but it goes a little like this, two men where walking along one of good nature and actions, the other not so good, the man of less than favourable actions found a gold coin, while the other pricked his hand with a thorn. When the man asked of the Guru why is it that i lead a good life yet i get a thorn in my hand and the other gets rewarded with a gold coin, the Guru replied that it was in the mans destiny to find the treasure and that because of his wrong doing his treasure had been reduced to just one coin, as for you, your destiny was to be impaled on a stake but because of your good actions this had been reduced to just a thorn. If you are detained here against your will then it is because of your earlier actions and the consequences of which is to see the fowl deeds of others, but instead of misering over them let it go and enjoy what life has to offer however small, I have only asked that the Gurus teaching be told in all languages and not insulted any singular person please have the same repect for me and do not insult me or my family.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771
Tony

Forum members, all respected:

The thread title asks if the Punjabi language is a barrier for new Sikhs.

The logically possible answers are Yes, No, Maybe, Sometimes, I am not certain, or similar terms. The only group of members who can truthfully answer the question posed by the thread would be new Sikhs who are not Punjabi speakers. Anyone else would be guessing. Of course there are Punjabi speakers who might be Hindu, Christian, Mulsim, etc. who on conversion wouldn't have the problem implied by the thread title, since they were Punjabi speakers at the time of conversion.

Once an answer is selected (Yes, No, etc.) then the next step in conversation would be to explain why lack of fluency in Punjabi is a problem and/or what steps have been taken to correct the problem and/or experiences that illustrate the problem -- if it is a problem.

Those who are fluent in Punjabi can contribute to the discussion in equally valuable ways by providing suggestions and recommending learning materials, lessons, schools, online learning sites. They can also provide moral support, or relate stories and experiences positive and negative of their non-Punjabi friends and associates. Perhaps they even have experience as teachers of the Punjabi language.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771

The thread is situated in the part of the forum called New To Sikhism. I fail to see how criticism of new Sikhs would contribute to a positive forum experience. The point of the New to Sikhism forum is to support converts. So let's try to HELP by being mentors.

Let's also stay on the topic of the thread or posts will be moved. Consider my remarks an invitation to turn over a new page in interpersonal communication and Internet civility. Thanks and fateh!

Religion was the bastion of the intellectual elite, its mysteries and deep spiritual wisdom well protected from modern day opinion espousing novices debating the semantics of a profound wisdom man must aspire towards if called than make demands of. Enlightenment is not solely gained by ardent study or pursuit of its prestigious mantle, but by grace, faith and devotion..

The sacred truths are illumined by the devotee as their intellectual integrity, emotional maturity and moral mettle permit. Novices, scholars and students of the sacred path to this noble shrine must submit their own mind, supplicate the heart and merge the spirit. It is only in this state the gentle peace of sahej is found.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771

The modern day subtle threat to the standing of religiosity has placed the very existence of God and the Supreme Lord into question, that is the danger of incongruent and the ignorant bringing their own lack of guile and wit to the tolerant threshold of the House of God. Sikhism does not by its intrinsic nature convert others to its path. The major religions are weakened by the submission to each demand voiced through a vociferous media mob to include such political matters in its retinue, only to assert blame upon religions unsolicited intervention in their politics. A truly comical farce of counter-allegations and transference of the sin of the unscrupulous upon the divided and undefended house of religion. A detached observation leads one to be fiercely protective of the sacred sanctum within where many hours of peace of mind were found.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771

Followers of religions have no right to make loud assertion or demands of religion. Once one demand is satisfied a barrage of whims follows dismantling the very walls of the temple of truth to serve the cause of the seemingly insurmountable mob at its door. A terrible outcome indeed. Let politicians serve the people, and the media seek out ‘public opinion’ through shields of their own vented views. Politics is a terrible affair.

All books of learning, be they Scientific, religious, Philosophical or Political are as valid as the intelligence communicated by their preachers and the understanding of their adherents. Sikhism has printed many scriptures in many languages for the benefit of Sikh children born in foreign lands for whom Punjabi is not immediately their primary language. Once read in Romanic the Sikh is then inspired to learn the relatively language of Punjabi and Sanskrit and gain a firsthand alliteration of the sacred scriptures of the Bani. As it should be, an exercise of Love and devotion than demand and aggression...

{A Sikh becomes transcends merged with the Holy Golden spectral Light of the Supreme Lord. What is then a white sikh?}

As the message of Sikhi is for all humanity then language should not become a stumbling block which it is for many.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771

The sad reality is the lack of education of the caretakers of the Panth- The Honchos of the Takhats and of SGPC. The english transliteration by many so called Sikh scholars is poor and many times misleading which is not only sad but offensive to the Gurmat ideals. We have no venues to train anyone.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771

If we can find the Holy Bible,Koran and scriptures of other religions in Punjabi and in many other languages, then why can we not find Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in different languages?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind........


Tejwant Singh

Jeetijohal Ji..

The Fonts in your mail look very nice....BUT makes reading them difficult...
the "real beauty" of a Mail is in the MESSAGE..dont you think ??
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771

Just a thought....simple clothes brings out the inner beauty..similarly simple easy to read fonts make it easier on some of us who dont have eagle eyes....
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4771

Hope you dont mind....

Thanks

Tejwant Ji..
A very stimulating thought indeed...

A few unique features of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

1. Its in POETRY...and poetry is doubly harder to translate than PROSE.

2. The Divine Message in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is shrouded in Metaphorical and allegorical vocabulary....again a very challenging task for the would be translator to tackle as he/she would have to be very very fluent and comfortable with the metaphors and allegories in BOTH languages - Original and translated into. That is at the base of the ludicrous and downright funny and laughable misinterpretations we find in modern day Translations available today..simply becasue the translator just went for the "Word to word" surface translation literally...not even bothering to go deeper than skin deep !!

3. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is about EXPERIENCES....rather than straight forward historical stories as in the Bible/Koran..and as we all know..
experiences" are as difficult to translate as even Guru Ji admits..Jion Gunggeh mathiyee khayee...How can a Dumb/Deaf MUTE Express himself regarding the taste of sweetmeats he has eaten..in this case the "tranlsator" would be DEAF/UMB/MUTE in terms of Vovabulary !! LOST FOR WORDS LITERALLY !!

4. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji further contains over a DOZEN Languages...and that complicates matters even more..as just being an expert in one or two languages wont be enough as is the case with the Bible/Koran.

5. Last but not least the question of Finances...Resources...The Bible/Koran has nearly 2 BILLION followers and MULTIPLE GOVERNMENTS backing them - 40 Mulsim Countries...and the Worlds biggest richest countries backing the Bible....with SIKHS..no such hope...we dont even have a "state" let alone a country..we are minorities everywhere...a RICH man having a piece of GLASS has the resources to "polish" it and have it Marketed as Diamond..easily....a POOR man having an uncut diamond wont be able to have it even polished !! much less market it..thats is the situation we are in.

6. I am eternally grateful that Manmohan Singh completed the task of Translating the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji into the 8 Vol set at absolutley NO PERSONAL benenfit to himself or his family (financially) But at great personal COST...the Same effort was performed by Prof Sahib Singh with his Ten Volume Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Darpan..... The Mahan Kosh and the Faridkot Teeka was financed by the SikH maharajas of Nabha and Faridkot respectively. So we do have the Basics...now its up to US ALL as the Sikh Nation to do the needful in translating the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Darpan into English (initially) and improving on the Manmohan Singh Teeka vocubalary wise. Then perhaps can progress to other languages...The Greatest Disappointment has been the SGPC which has wasted hundreds of millions of Goluck collections for the past 90 YEARS..all down the drain.....