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Are there different types of Sikhs?

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 19-Mar-2010, 02:15 AM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Are there different types of Sikhs?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by namjap View Post
I agree with that. I am wondering if Bhagat Kabir was a keshadhari. In one of his selok he mentioned.....
I often wonder about that too Nam Jap ji



 
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ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੂੰ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਕਰਤੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਵਣਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਣਿ ਰਤੜਾ ਨਾਰਾਇਣਾ ॥
jae ko moon oupadhaes karath hai thaa van thrin ratharraa naaraaeinaa ||
If someone is going to teach me something, let that be that the Lord is pervading the forests and fields.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 19-Mar-2010, 12:44 PM
Hardip Singh's Avatar Hardip Singh Hardip Singh is offline
 
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Re: Are there different types of Sikhs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur View Post
This is from the FAQ below

Quoted from the article:

Another group categorized with the Keshadharis are the Nirankaris, founded by Baba Dayal (d. 1853). They concentrate on the formless, eternal nature of God and accept the existence of a continuing line of living gurus. The final group is known as the Namdari or Kukas. This is a reform group which developed in the 19th century and they follow a living Guru who is descended from he original gurus."


Nirankaris are a sect but not part of the original sampardaya. And the author makes it seem as if Nirankaris are a group within Keshadharis. .
I think you are mistaken. Nirankary were folowers of one Avtar Singh of Rawalpindi, who happened to be a bootlegger than. They are no way any sect of Sikhism. Also, Namdharis were never a part of Nirankaris , they existed much before them. Pl check.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 19-Mar-2010, 12:45 PM
Hardip Singh's Avatar Hardip Singh Hardip Singh is offline
 
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Re: Are there different types of Sikhs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur View Post
I often wonder about that too Nam Jap ji
Which Shabad of Bhagat jee, you are refering, pl elebrate.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 19-Mar-2010, 13:04 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Are there different types of Sikhs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardip Singh View Post
I think you are mistaken. Nirankary were folowers of one Avtar Singh of Rawalpindi, who happened to be a bootlegger than. They are no way any sect of Sikhism. Also, Namdharis were never a part of Nirankaris , they existed much before them. Pl check.
Hardip ji

I don't know how I may have created that impression but you are quite right. I never said that Namdharis are part of Nirankaris. No they never were. The Nirankaris began in the 19th Century. And absolutely, they are not a sect of Sikhism. They have evolved into an interfaith sangat.

This is what I said about Nirankaris

Nirankaris are a sect but not part of the original sampardaya. And the author makes it seem as if Nirankaris are a group within Keshadharis. Which is also wrong. Nirankari did keep hair at one time, but today they may or may not keep hair. Nirankari today are more of an interfaith group that worships one God through prayer and simran that is not taken from the Guru Granth Sahib. They are led by a human satguru.

They are not Sikhs, absolutely not! At this link it describes how the modern Nirankari movement is organized Sant Nirankari Mission

Then I said this about Namdharis

Namdhari are not a sect of Sikhism. Namdhari are an independent tradition. They believe that Guru Gobind Singh did not die but hid in the jungle. They have a tradition of human satgurus, continuing for more than 200 years.

So I apologize if I was not as clear as I should have been. But I do not believe that anything I said was incorrect.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 19-Mar-2010, 13:17 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Are there different types of Sikhs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardip Singh View Post
Which Shabad of Bhagat jee, you are refering, pl elebrate.

Well I cannot speak for NamJap ji - But this is what I was pondering. It is a very long shabad, but a very beautiful one. Here is a part of it.

ਅਬ ਤਉ ਜਾਇ ਚਢੇ ਸਿੰਘਾਸਨਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਹੈ ਸਾਰਿੰਗਪਾਨੀ ॥
ab tho jaae chadtae singhaasan milae hai saaringapaanee ||
Now, I have mounted to the throne of the Lord; I have met the Lord, the Sustainer of the World.


ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਏਕ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥੬॥੩॥

raam kabeeraa eaek bheae hai koe n sakai pashhaanee ||6||3||
The Lord and Kabeer have become one. No one can tell them apart. ||6||3||

ਸੰਤਾ ਮਾਨਉ ਦੂਤਾ ਡਾਨਉ ਇਹ ਕੁਟਵਾਰੀ ਮੇਰੀ ॥

santhaa maano dhoothaa ddaano eih kuttavaaree maeree ||
I honor and obey the Saints, and punish the wicked; this is my duty as God's police officer.

ਦਿਵਸ ਰੈਨਿ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਾਉ ਪਲੋਸਉ ਕੇਸ ਚਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਫੇਰੀ ॥੧॥

dhivas rain thaerae paao paloso kaes chavar kar faeree ||1||
Day and night, I wash Your feet, Lord; I wave my

hair as the chauree, to brush away the flies. ||1||

ਹਮ ਕੂਕਰ ਤੇਰੇ ਦਰਬਾਰਿ ॥
ham kookar thaerae dharabaar ||
I am a dog at Your Court, Lord.

ਭਉਕਹਿ ਆਗੈ ਬਦਨੁ ਪਸਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
bhoukehi aagai badhan pasaar ||1|| rehaao ||
I open my snout and bark before it. ||1||Pause||

ਪੂਰਬ ਜਨਮ ਹਮ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਰੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਅਬ ਤਉ ਮਿਟਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥
poorab janam ham thumharae saevak ab tho mittiaa n jaaee ||
In my past life, I was Your servant; now, I cannot leave You.


ਤੇਰੇ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਧੁਨਿ ਸਹਜ ਕੀ ਮਾਥੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਦਗਾਈ ॥੨॥
thaerae dhuaarai dhhun sehaj kee maathhai maerae dhagaaee ||2||
The celestial sound current resounds at Your Door. Your insignia is stamped upon my forehead. ||2||


ਦਾਗੇ ਹੋਹਿ ਸੁ ਰਨ ਮਹਿ ਜੂਝਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਦਾਗੇ ਭਗਿ ਜਾਈ ॥
dhaagae hohi s ran mehi joojhehi bin dhaagae bhag jaaee ||
Those who are branded with Your brand fight bravely in battle; those without Your brand run away.


ਸਾਧੂ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਪਛਾਨੈ ਹਰਿ ਲਏ ਖਜਾਨੈ ਪਾਈ ॥੩॥
saadhhoo hoe s bhagath pashhaanai har leae khajaanai paaee ||3||
One who becomes a Holy person, appreciates the value of devotional worship to the Lord. The Lord places him in His treasury. ||3||

Ang 969/970
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 19-Mar-2010, 19:06 PM
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Re: Are there different types of Sikhs?

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Quote:
I am wondering if Bhagat Kabir was a keshadhari. In one of his selok he mentioned....

ਕਬੀਰ ਬੇੜਾ ਜਰਜਰਾ ਫੂਟੇ ਛੇਂਕ ਹਜਾਰ
कबीर बेड़ा जरजरा फूटे छेंक हजार ॥
Kabīr beṛā jarjarā fūte cẖẖeʼnk hajār.
Kabeer, the boat is old, and it has thousands of holes.

ਹਰੂਏ ਹਰੂਏ ਤਿਰਿ ਗਏ ਡੂਬੇ ਜਿਨ ਸਿਰ ਭਾਰ ॥੩੫॥
हरूए हरूए तिरि गए डूबे जिन सिर भार ॥३५॥
Harū▫e harū▫e ṯir ga▫e dūbe jin sir bẖār. ||35||
Those who are light get across, while those who carry the weight of their sins on their heads are drowned. ||35||

ਕਬੀਰ ਹਾਡ ਜਰੇ ਜਿਉ ਲਾਕਰੀ ਕੇਸ ਜਰੇ ਜਿਉ ਘਾਸੁ
कबीर हाड जरे जिउ लाकरी केस जरे जिउ घासु ॥
Kabīr hād jare ji▫o lākrī kes jare ji▫o gẖās.
Kabeer, the bones burn like wood, and the hair burns like straw.

ਇਹੁ ਜਗੁ ਜਰਤਾ ਦੇਖਿ ਕੈ ਭਇਓ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਉਦਾਸੁ ॥੩੬॥
इहु जगु जरता देखि कै भइओ कबीरु उदासु ॥३६॥
Ih jag jarṯā ḏekẖ kai bẖa▫i▫o Kabīr uḏās. ||36||
Seeing the world burning like this, Kabeer has become sad. ||36||

ਕਬੀਰ ਗਰਬੁ ਕੀਜੀਐ ਚਾਮ ਲਪੇਟੇ ਹਾਡ
कबीर गरबु न कीजीऐ चाम लपेटे हाड ॥
Kabīr garab na kījī▫ai cẖām lapete hād.
Kabeer, do not be so proud of your bones wrapped up in skin.

ਹੈਵਰ ਊਪਰਿ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਤਰ ਤੇ ਫੁਨਿ ਧਰਨੀ ਗਾਡ ॥੩੭॥
हैवर ऊपरि छत्र तर ते फुनि धरनी गाड ॥३७॥
Haivar ūpar cẖẖaṯar ṯar ṯe fun ḏẖarnī gād. ||37||
Those who were on their horses and under their canopies, were eventually buried under the ground. ||37||
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