I still can't find peace on this meat v.s. vegetarian issue

I have read both sides of the argument for and against eating meat, but there are still many unanswered questions. For example: If it is wrong for sikhs to eat meat then how come we use musical instruments that are constructed in part by animal skin? I have many more questions like this as well. If I recall correctly I've been a Sikh for about 2 years now, but I still am unsure about this question.
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Salyadhi

You always make such thoughtful comments -- and we are forced to think because of them.

Will you find peace, I wonder, if this controversy has continued for centuries and centuries. Your questions about animal skins could be matched by concern over all leather products -- shoes, clothing, briefcases, handbags, book bindings, and on and on. The answer in the end probably comes from within each individual.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/new-to-sikhism/23227-i-still-cant-find-peace-meat.html

We can make individual choices usually, but sometimes there are Sikhs who cannot. For example in Muslim countries if one eats meat, it will probably have to be halal meat in which animals suffer, because of shariya when it is enforced. So the only option is to be vegetarian. As for animal products used for musical instruments -- well there is a question for further discussion. Thanks.

Satyadhi Ji , I don't know if u have gone through this link on MEAT V/S VEG

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

But it is according to me a true masterpiece , the END OF ALL DEBATES . But u right regarding this musical instruments theory perhaps , so one more point goes against vegetarians' logic .

You have hit the dilemma I hit several years ago. I was so sure of myself and now this whole debate has been clarified:

On the instrument issue, I found this interesting couplet:

Vaar 23 Pauri 13 Lesson from Goat

ਹਸਤਿ ਅਖਾਜੁ ਗੁਮਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਹੁ ਸਤਾਣਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਖਾਈ ।

hasati akhaaju gumaan kari seehu sataanaa koi n khaaee|

The proud elephant is inedible and none eats the mighty lion.

Line 1


ਹੋਇ ਨਿਮਾਣੀ ਬਕਰੀ ਦੀਨ ਦੁਨੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਪਾਈ ।

hoi nimaanee bakaree deen dunee vadiaaee paaee|

Goat is humble and hence it is respected everywhere.

Line 2


ਮਰਣੈ ਪਰਣੈ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਜਗਿ ਭੋਗਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਕਰਾਈ ।

maranai paranai manneeai jagi bhogi paravaanu karaaee|

On occasions of death, joy, marriage, yajna, etc only its meat dis accepted.

Line 3


ਮਾਸੁ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਸਤ ਨੋ ਆਂਦਹੁ ਤਾਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਵਜਾਈ ।

maasu pavitr grihasat no aandahu taar veechaari vajaaee|

Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made.

Line 4


ਚਮੜੇ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਰਿ ਜੁਤੀਆ ਸਾਧੂ ਚਰਣ ਸਰਣਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ।

chamarhay deeaan kari juteeaa saadhoo charan sarani|iv|aaee|

From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord.

Line 5


ਤੂਰ ਪਖਾਵਜ ਮੜੀਦੇ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ ।

toor pakhaavaj marheeday keeratanu saadhasangati sukhadaaee|

Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord, is sung.

Line 6


ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥੧੩॥

saadhasangati satigur saranaaee ॥13॥

In fact, going to the holy congregation is the same as going to the shelter of the true Guru.

Line 7


As for any further comment then just follow the link Dal Birk provided.

I read the fools who wrangle over flesh essay a long time ago, so I should probably reread it, considering my knowledge of Sikhi has grown since then. Thank you Randip Singh ji, I'll have to contemplate that couplet for a while. My problem is that the idea of misunderstanding the Guru ji is very bothersome to me, I just wouldn't want to lead anyone else astray.

Why would you lead anyone else astray?

If vegetarianism is fine with you then pursue it.

If meat eating is fine with you then pursue it.

Both positions are fine with Sikhi.

The misleading comes when one camp (meat or vegetarian) starts to think their position is superior.

Satyadhi ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23227

Just my personal observation. Vegetarianism among Sikhs is a cultural and familial pattern. or an individual choice. Not a religious one. There are many Sikhs who eat meat. There are many Sikhs who are vegetarian. There are also Sikhs who are vegan (no eggs, dairy, or refined sugar). The choice apparently depends on early influences. Sikhs born into Sikh families that eat meat tend to eat meat. Sikhs born into Sikh families who are vegetarian tend to remain vegetarian. There are always exceptions. Namdhari Sikhs do not eat meat because that is part of their belief system and has been so historically. 3HO Sikhs do not eat meat (again I don't know 100 percent of all 3HO Sikhs, so how can I be sure?). However, their founder Yogi Bhajan did not eat meat. Many of the first generation 3HO's in fact are vegan because they were vegan before they became Sikhs. Some of their children and grandchildren interestingly have strayed-- but only on the sugar and dairy issues.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23227

In my humble opinion, the most important thing is to understand that the choice to be vegetarian comes from deeply held convictions. We do not do our best when we insult others because of personal and cultural choices by calling their spirituality into question. I am a vegetarian and I don't even bring the issue up with Sikhs that I meet because the question itself could be taken as a veiled critique of the other person. You will make your own choice. Guruji will guide you. You won't mislead anyone if you are honest about your decision.

Thank you, aad0002. I believe you're right.

Sat Nam, Ji- thank you for bringing this point. Many are not sure about whether or not to eat meat.
One thing to look at is that if one has been eating meat and decides to go vegetarian, one has to do so very carefully. Otherwise, the body systems go into shock and that is not nice.

Also, there appear to be some people who really feel they need to eat meat. To them, I say, Then make it as organic and healthful as possible; no preservatives, hormones, or any of that.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23227
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23227

Listen to what your body says. I have found that it is easier to do meditation without meat in the diet. It evidently makes the body systems overly acidic and makes meditation more difficult.
To your good health!
Wahe Guru
Kulwantk

Can I ask the forum generally, why we cannot have more balanced posts like this and Antoniaji's on the meat issue?

Why do we have to go hysterical about it?