Is it a Sin for a Sikh to Marry a Non-Sikh?

KChehal · #46 (**permalink**) 20-Jun-2006, 18:30 PM

It is not a question of committing a sin or not, it is more of a conflict between love for the religion and love for the partner. Most of us commit sin one way or rather (intemtionally or unintentionally).

Some of us feel religion should take precedent over personal matters and some think otherwise. So what actually is a sin? If I send one of my seriously ill parent to one of the nursing home for care, would it be a sin? As our culture teaches us to look after our elders. If in the morning I bought some meat from a butcher and having collected some change (money) from him, in the evening I go to the gurdwara and 'metha take ' with the same money. Is it a sin?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/love-and-marriage/8803-is-sin-sikh-marry-non-sikh.html

So dear brothers and sisters, I personally feel it is up to each individual to choose his/her way of life and whatever way he or she choses to live cannot be constituted as a sin.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803

Finally the bani says "awal, allah noor upay, kudrat ke bandhi sab ek hai ......" (I hope I got this right -please correct me if wrong).

max314 · #47 (**permalink**) 21-Jun-2006, 20:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Why be religious, why belive in God and take steps to lead a life as laid out by your religious dogma?

The quick and simple answer would appear to be for some sort of reward, be that heaven, or paradise, or enlightenment, or simply a way out of this life-death-rebirth cycle.

As such that makes each and every one of us religious types selfish, yep selfish. We are of course first and foremost in it to 'save our souls' and many of the alturistic practices that come with faith are really as a by product of this.

Precisely. I've said this on a couple of other Sikkh boards, too. And it applies to pretty much any religion's 'solution to salvation'.

drkhalsa · #48 (**permalink**) 22-Jun-2006, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee
Why be religious, why belive in God and take steps to lead a life as laid out by your religious dogma?

The quick and simple answer would appear to be for some sort of reward, be that heaven, or paradise, or enlightenment, or simply a way out of this life-death-rebirth cycle.

As such that makes each and every one of us religious types selfish, yep selfish. We are of course first and foremost in it to 'save our souls' and many of the alturistic practices that come with faith are really as a by product of this.

Quote:

Precisely. I've said this on a couple of other Sikkh boards, too. And it applies to pretty much any religion's 'solution to salvation'

Dear Friends

I could be wrong so ask forgiveness in advance if you dont like it

I agree that in religions the highest thing that is offred is SALVATION and amny other like HEAVEN in others

But as AKAL made me understand SIKHISM it has something else at the peak , and yes it fits into understand with grate difficulty as it is diffrent so has to be experienced

I would like to share a quote from gubani regarding this if you dont mind . In this shabd Kabi asking for the thing that one can achieve in Sikhism and it is not Salvation clearly !

ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ ੫ ॥
देवगंधारी ५ ॥
dayvganDhaaree 5.
Dayv-Gandhaaree, Fifth Mehl:

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਬਚਨ ਤੁਹਾਰੇ ॥
अम्रिता प्रिअ बचन तुहारे ॥
amritaa pari-a bachan tuhaaray.
O Beloved, Your Words are Ambrosial Nectar.

ਅਤਿ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਮਨਮੋਹਨ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਭਹੂ ਮਧਿ ਨਿਰਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अति सुंदर मनमोहन पिआरे सभहू मधि निरारे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
at sundar manmohan pi-aaray sabhhoo maDh niraaray. ||1|| rahaa-o.
O supremely beautiful Enticer, O Beloved, You are among all, and yet distinct from all. ||1||Pause||

ਰਾਜੁ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲਾਰੇ ॥
राजु न चाहउ मुकति न चाहउ मनि प्रीति चरन कमलारे ॥
raaj na chaaha-o mukat na chaaha-o man pareet charan kamlaaray.
I do not seek power, and I do not seek liberation. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਿਧ ਮੁਨਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਮੋਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਹੀ ਦਰਸਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
ब्रहम महेस सिध मुनि इंद्रा मोहि ठाकुर ही दरसारे ॥१॥
barahm mahays siDh mun indraa mohi thaakur hee darsaaray. ||1||
Brahma, Shiva, the Siddhas, the silent sages and Indra - I seek only the Blessed Vision of my Lord and Master's Darshan. ||1||

ਦੀਨੁ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਆਇਓ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਸਰਨਿ ਪਰਿਓ ਸੰਤ ਹਾਰੇ ॥
दीनु दुआरै आइओ ठाकुर सरनि परिओ संत हारे ॥
deen du-aarai aa-i-o thaakur saran pari-o sant haaray.
I have come, helpless, to Your Door, O Lord Master; I am exhausted - I seek the Sanctuary of the Saints.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮਿਲੇ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਮਨੁ ਸੀਤਲ ਬਿਗਸਾਰੇ ॥੨॥੩॥੨੯॥
कहु नानक प्रभ मिले मनोहर मनु सीतल बिगसारे ॥२॥३॥२९॥
kaho naanak parabh milay manohar man seetal bigsaaray. ||2||3||29||
Says Nanak, I have met my Enticing Lord God; my mind is cooled and soothed - it blossoms forth in joy. ||2||3||29||

Jatinder Singh

dalsingh · #49 (**permalink**) 13-Jul-2006, 10:29 AM

Going back to the original question. An important issue is one concerning the alarmingly disproportionate birth rates of female and male Sikhs in the Panjab. This means that like it or not Sikh men will soon have to find non-Sikh wifes/partners.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803

I don't think sin is a word that fits well in Sikhism. It differs from the semetic religions in that the focus is not on some extreme punishment that awaits us for not following certain rules, i.e. sinning.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803

What is sad however is when Sikhs chose non-Sikh partners and then raise their children in a sort of cultural vacum, where they are denied their heritage or given a watered down version of it. This is just my personal opinion though, and I still struggle to separate my Punjabi cultural heritage from my Sikh one.

All in all, whatever our views, we would be foolish not to wish for our people to grow in all ways - including numerically. Plus some new blood in the quam wouldn't do it any harm.

Lee · #50 (**permalink**) 13-Jul-2006, 15:33 PM

Dalsingh Ji,

You are very brave in admiting that your Sikhi may be coloured by your cultutre, heh I know I get into lots of trouble when I mention this to other Punjbai Sikhs, I just wanted to say that to you.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803

I don't understand this thing with bringing the children up in faith, I have never really understood it, surly it is up to them wether to choose God or not, and if so which method best suits them? Hitting children with Sikhi or Christianity or Islam, or whatever without letting them have a well rounded education in all faith, is tantamount to brainwashing to my mind. Heh but perhaps now I show my cultutral bias huh!

max314 · #51 (**permalink**) 13-Jul-2006, 18:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkhalsa

Dear Friends

I could be wrong so ask forgiveness in advance if you dont like it

I agree that in religions the highest thing that is offred is SALVATION and amny other like HEAVEN in others

But as AKAL made me understand SIKHISM it has something else at the peak , and yes it fits into understand with grate difficulty as it is diffrent so has to be experienced

I would like to share a quote from gubani regarding this if you dont mind . In this shabd Kabi asking for the thing that one can achieve in Sikhism and it is not Salvation clearly !

ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ ੫ ॥
देवगंधारी ५ ॥
dayvganDhaaree 5.
Dayv-Gandhaaree, Fifth Mehl:

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਬਚਨ ਤੁਹਾਰੇ ॥
अम्रिता प्रिअ बचन तुहारे ॥
amritaa pari-a bachan tuhaaray.
O Beloved, Your Words are Ambrosial Nectar.

ਅਤਿ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਮਨਮੋਹਨ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਭਹੂ ਮਧਿ ਨਿਰਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अति सुंदर मनमोहन पिआरे सभहू मधि निरारे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
at sundar manmohan pi-aaray sabhhoo maDh niraaray. ||1|| rahaa-o.
O supremely beautiful Enticer, O Beloved, You are among all, and yet distinct from all. ||1||Pause||

ਰਾਜੁ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲਾਰੇ ॥
राजु न चाहउ मुकति न चाहउ मनि प्रीति चरन कमलारे ॥
raaj na chaaha-o mukat na chaaha-o man pareet charan kamlaaray.
I do not seek power, and I do not seek liberation. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਿਧ ਮੁਨਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਮੋਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਹੀ ਦਰਸਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
ब्रहम महेस सिध मुनि इंद्रा मोहि ठाकुर ही दरसारे ॥१॥
barahm mahays siDh mun indraa mohi thaakur hee darsaaray. ||1||
Brahma, Shiva, the Siddhas, the silent sages and Indra - I seek only the Blessed Vision of my Lord and Master's Darshan. ||1||

ਦੀਨੁ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਆਇਓ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਸਰਨਿ ਪਰਿਓ ਸੰਤ ਹਾਰੇ ॥
दीनु दुआरै आइओ ठाकुर सरनि परिओ संत हारे ॥
deen du-aarai aa-i-o thaakur saran pari-o sant haaray.
I have come, helpless, to Your Door, O Lord Master; I am exhausted - I seek the Sanctuary of the Saints.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮਿਲੇ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਮਨੁ ਸੀਤਲ ਬਿਗਸਾਰੇ ॥੨॥੩॥੨੯॥
कहु नानक प्रभ मिले मनोहर मनु सीतल बिगसारे ॥२॥३॥२९॥
kaho naanak parabh milay manohar man seetal bigsaaray. ||2||3||29||
Says Nanak, I have met my Enticing Lord God; my mind is cooled and soothed - it blossoms forth in joy. ||2||3||29||

Jatinder Singh

That's a lovely passage. What point were you trying to make with it, exactly?

dalsingh · #52 (**permalink**) 13-Jul-2006, 20:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Dalsingh Ji,

You are very brave in admiting that your Sikhi may be coloured by your cultutre, heh I know I get into lots of trouble when I mention this to other Punjbai Sikhs, I just wanted to say that to you.

I don't understand this thing with bringing the children up in faith, I have never really understood it, surly it is up to them wether to choose God or not, and if so which method best suits them? Hitting children with Sikhi or Christianity or Islam, or whatever without letting them have a well rounded education in all faith, is tantamount to brainwashing to my mind. Heh but perhaps now I show my cultutral bias huh!

Exactly Lee, what you have said there is a typically Eurocentric viewpoint I hear all the time. Having grown up in the West for most of my life I can say that the very nature of the society we live in is geared towards influencing us and making us think in a certain way, through media and other tools. This is done subtly and if this is not brainwashing what is?

Regarding your other point I think you would be hard pressed to find a Punjabi Sikh not influenced by his culture. At this point in time for many of us the two seems to be intertwined to a great extent. Even if they do seem contradictory in many ways. I guess thats just yet another paradox of my heritage.

vijaydeep Singh · #53 (**permalink**) 15-Jul-2006, 21:54 PM

Gurfateh
We anywas need to try that punjabism may not come into our sikh way or as for Das biahrisim may not come into Sikh way.Regeona or pagan feeling needs to be controled.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803

But as faith interacts with newer culturs may unprcedented and welcoming orgresses happned.But even then West and UK in articular is better lace for Sikhs then say Pakistan or middle east.

drkhalsa · #54 (**permalink**) 16-Jul-2006, 20:09 PM

Quote:

That's a lovely passage. What point were you trying to make with it, exactly?

Sorry for the confusion !

The line i was most interested in this shabad by Bhagat Kabir ji is about so called liberation which is yhought to be peak achievement or reward for being religious . Infact longing for liberation itself is part entaglement of maya/ matrix
and bhagat Kbair clearly say what he wants

ਰਾਜੁ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲਾਰੇ ॥
राजु न चाहउ मुकति न चाहउ मनि प्रीति चरन कमलारे ॥
raaj na chaaha-o mukat na chaaha-o man pareet charan kamlaaray.
I do not seek power, and I do not seek liberation. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.

Jatinder Singh