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Is it a Sin for a Sikh to Marry a Non-Sikh?

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  #201 (permalink)  
Old 16-Mar-2010, 08:43 AM
Bmandur's Avatar Bmandur Bmandur is offline
 
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaspi View Post
Wahe Guru ji ka Kahlsa,Whahe Guru Ji ki Fateh.

It is very obvious to see our generations breaking the old beliefs in cast system which restrict any one to love another human being because he or she belongs to other cast..

Our hypocrisies in practices which has already divided our community to this level that our worshiping places (GIRUDWAR S) are being built based on certain casts group.

More old beliefs are being shunned and our old priests are being stunned with the progress being developed to be all one human beings.

The day is not far when people will be judged and treated according to their deeds than the birth.


But the philosophy and teachings our GURU Nanak Dev Ji that " EK NOOR SE SABH KUCH UPJIA,KAUN BHALE OR MANDE" has slowly being eliminated.

More divisions in Gurudwara and families are on rise because we are approaching reality
to understand what we are taught is not what is being practices in our communities


It is enough to realize that masssive sufferings by lower casts has been put to sufferings in Hindu India by their practices. Surprisingly it is still being carried on.

Here come Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Guru Gobindh Singh Ji to dismantlement of century old cast system.But still creeping in and practices the cast system to restrict our thought to oneness.

Jaspi.
Jaspi JI
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji KI Fateh

Please make a note:

<TABLE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 50px" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>aval aleh noor oupaaeiaa kudharath kae sabh ba(n)dhae ||

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

eaek noor thae sabh jag oupajiaa koun bhalae ko ma(n)dhae ||1||

From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1||

<TABLE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 50px" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>logaa bharam n bhoolahu bhaaee ||

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


<TABLE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 50px" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>khaalik khalak khalak mehi khaalik poor rehiou srab t(h)aa(n)ee ||1|| rehaao ||

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. ||</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 50px" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>
<TABLE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 50px" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle height=10>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>




 
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  #202 (permalink)  
Old 16-Mar-2010, 09:33 AM
jaspi's Avatar jaspi jaspi is offline
 
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

Wahe Guru Ji ka khalsa and Waheguru Ji kI Fateh.

After reading all the comments about marrying a person other than your cast or religion is a SIN.

The time is coming in illiterate and cast ridden societies when they will realize time is gone to forbid the girls to get any kind of educations to stop them to get more awareness of their rights.


Who can come forward to pose religion as a threat because some one decided to make his home some where with one he/she loves .

This kind of blames like SINS are applied to poor family only to make their life more miserable when their daughter see a light for betterment by marrying other than her parents will choose. for her.

But rich and wealthy people can get Mary with any other cast and still being accepted by the society.

You can have thousand of examples . Sonia Gandhi an Italian married to Hindu and Indra Gandhi was married to Froze Khan and many many more.

It is gross ignorances when some one speak about Akal Purkh. No one can explain or suppose or create the name of Akal Purakh.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/love-and-marriage/8803-is-sin-sikh-marry-non-sikh.html

"Mithiya na jai ,keeta na hoi, Ape ap niranjan soi."

Akal Purkh has nothing to do with bad or good ,cast ray of light and LOVE on all regardless of any colors or creeds.


It is the KARMA.

"what you sow ,so shall you reap"

To marry with some one with your WILL is never considered as a sin even he is /her from other religion.

Our own faith says:

"EK NOOR TON SABH JAG UPJIA KAUN BHALE KAUN MANDE"
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803

i
The children can say with pride their father is white or Muslim and my mother is Hindu or Sikh. Protectionism of religions is bound to collapse slowly in cast ridden and illiterate societies just like western societies has completely changed their differences with CHURCH and other human rights.

Religion in the politics is eliminated in western world where as we still are victims of different religions and cast systems.

The biggest sin is to be racist to hate your own kinds and foundation to r eradicate this cancer was laid to by Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to put stop to it. It was further affirmed by Shri Gur Gibindh singh Ji by creating a Khalsa from all races to sit together like brothers..

Jaspi
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  #203 (permalink)  
Old 16-Mar-2010, 23:31 PM
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur View Post
I appreciate your replies harbhansji and jaspi for different reasons. Also I think the way that the situation of amirtdhari is unique was explained very well.

My question persists...usually sin is translated as paap or as kurehit. The words connote somewhat different notions. So does one accumulate paap? Is one guilty of kurehit? Perhaps overly technical of me but is it paap/kurehit if one marries a non-Sikh?

Or is the answer that neither word for sin applies to this question.
My very personal and humble opinion is as under:

  1. I do not think that it is sin for a Sikh to marry a non Sikh.
  2. A Sikh will not be considered a amritdhari until he/she is baptised along with the spouse. I do not think that SRM forbids Sikh to marry a non Sikh. Only requirement is to be faithful to ones legally wedded spouse. But it very specifically forbids adultery and this is considered as major kuheit.

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  #204 (permalink)  
Old 05-Apr-2010, 20:06 PM
JustCurious's Avatar JustCurious JustCurious is offline
 
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

I think the question is answered clearly by the REHAT MARYADA, which is the code of conduct formulated by the Sikh world providing guidelines for all Sikhs to follow due to lack of clarity in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The Rehat Maryadas clearly states:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803

Anand Sanskar (Lit. Joyful Ceremonial: Sikh Matrimonial Conventions and Ceremony)
Article XVIII
(a) A Sikh man and woman should enter wedlock without giving thought to the prospective spouse's caste and descent.
(b) A Sikh's daughter must be married to a Sikh. (underline and bold mine)
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  #205 (permalink)  
Old 05-Apr-2010, 20:13 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCurious View Post
I think the question is answered clearly by the REHAT MARYADA, which is the code of conduct formulated by the Sikh world providing guidelines for all Sikhs to follow due to lack of clarity in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The Rehat Maryadas clearly states:

Anand Sanskar (Lit. Joyful Ceremonial: Sikh Matrimonial Conventions and Ceremony)
Article XVIII
(a) A Sikh man and woman should enter wedlock without giving thought to the prospective spouse's caste and descent.
(b) A Sikh's daughter must be married to a Sikh. (underline and bold mine)
Just curious ji

Thank you for posting the Sikh Rehat Maryada. It clearly sets forth the expectations for conducting one's private life as a Sikh.

I only want to point out that the question is Is it a Sin for a Sikh to Marry a Non-Sikh. So here are some additional thoughts.

1. The concept of sin itself is part of the question.

2. In Sikhism the closest we come to this idea is through the term "kurehits." (kurahit) This means that after taking ones vows in baptism or Khanda pahul one has violated them.

i.e., One of the four cardinal infringements of the Rahit. These being, Cutting ones hair, consuming meat, extra-marital intercourse and smoking.

3. The example of marrying a non Sikh is not one of the "kurehits." (kurahit)

So the question may not be that simply resolved. Kurehit requires a person seek the counsel of the panj pyare, and accept a punishment. It may/may not correspond well to the idea of "sin." I myself do not know.

The prescription for conducting one's individual life as a Sikh comes under Section 4, Chapter 10 articles a through t, in the Sikh Rehat Maryada.


Sikhism - Sikh Rehat Maryada

The requirement to marry a Sikh is not included in that section. Many things are required, but even these are not all "kurehit."

So what is a "sin?" That is the point of the threaded questoin.
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  #206 (permalink)  
Old 05-Apr-2010, 22:00 PM
JustCurious's Avatar JustCurious JustCurious is offline
 
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur View Post
Just curious ji

Thank you for posting the Sikh Rehat Maryada. It clearly sets forth the expectations for conducting one's private life as a Sikh.

I only want to point out that the question is Is it a Sin for a Sikh to Marry a Non-Sikh. So here are some additional thoughts.

1. The concept of sin itself is part of the question.

2. In Sikhism the closest we come to this idea is through the term "kurehits." (kurahit) This means that after taking ones vows in baptism or Khanda pahul one has violated them.

i.e., One of the four cardinal infringements of the Rahit. These being, Cutting ones hair, consuming meat, extra-marital intercourse and smoking.

3. The example of marrying a non Sikh is not one of the "kurehits." (kurahit)

So the question may not be that simply resolved. Kurehit requires a person seek the counsel of the panj pyare, and accept a punishment. It may/may not correspond well to the idea of "sin." I myself do not know.

The prescription for conducting one's individual life as a Sikh comes under Section 4, Chapter 10 articles a through t, in the Sikh Rehat Maryada.


Sikhism - Sikh Rehat Maryada

The requirement to marry a Sikh is not included in that section. Many things are required, but even these are not all "kurehit."

So what is a "sin?" That is the point of the threaded questoin.
If Sikhism is a way of life as I have heard before then shouldn't the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the word of God provide the answers clearly as to what is a sin and what isn't so as to remove all doubt and confusion? Shouldn't the answer to the question posed by the original questioner be found in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Isn't that why the Rehat Maryada was formulated because of this lack of clarity in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
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  #207 (permalink)  
Old 06-Apr-2010, 03:10 AM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCurious View Post
If Sikhism is a way of life as I have heard before then shouldn't the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the word of God provide the answers clearly as to what is a sin and what isn't so as to remove all doubt and confusion? Shouldn't the answer to the question posed by the original questioner be found in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Isn't that why the Rehat Maryada was formulated because of this lack of clarity in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

LOL - Where did you hear that!!!

To the main question,
Just Curious ji

To paraphrase the famous Swiss psychologist and student of religion Carl Jung. Once in explaining why American railroad tracks were open and not not bordered by high metal fences as was true in Europe in his time, Jung said that Europeans plan for stupidity and Americans count on intelligence. Well an analogy can be found with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Guru Nanak had faith in humanity and did not spend a lot of time thinking of ways to micromanage the affairs of body and soul. For one thing he believed that humans were intrinsically good and that the enslavement of ritual and prescription would never release the inner power of divine light.

That is why Sri Guru Granth Sahib carries a message of liberation and empowerment.

He believed that there is "gian" within each of us. Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not insult its devotees by making any attempt to lay out a blueprint for spiritual, ethical and moral practice.

He gave us this view of ourselves as moral creatures. He believed we could figure this out without a lot of supervision.
  • There is only one God for all the peoples of the world
  • All are equal before this one God
  • To respect all beings and to protect the weak.
  • To live by one's honest labour and enterprise - Kirat Karni
  • To remember the gift of life from the Almighty and to rely on Him only
  • To engage in regular remembrance of God - Naam Japna and Simran
  • One must live the life of a householder - committed to Selfless service (Sewa) to the community
  • To shares one's wealth with the needy - Wand ka Chakna
  • To be vigilant and defend one's life from the evil internal forces - Lust (Kham), Anger (Krodh), Greed (Lobh), Attachment (Moh), and Ego (ahankar).
  • To promote positive qualities both personally and among the community. To embrace Sat (Truth); Daya (Compassion); Santokh (Contenment); Nimrata (Humility); and Pyare (Love) as positive qualities of life.
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  #208 (permalink)  
Old 06-Apr-2010, 03:44 AM
JustCurious's Avatar JustCurious JustCurious is offline
 
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur View Post
To the main question,
Just Curious ji

To paraphrase the famous Swiss psychologist and student of religion Carl Jung. Once in explaining why American railroad tracks were open and not not bordered by high metal fences as was true in Europe in his time, Jung said that Europeans plan for stupidity and Americans count on intelligence. Well an analogy can be found with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Guru Nanak had faith in humanity and did not spend a lot of time thinking of ways to micromanage the affairs of body and soul. For one thing he believed that humans were intrinsically good and that the enslavement of ritual and prescription would never release the inner power of divine light.

That is why Sri Guru Granth Sahib carries a message of liberation and empowerment.

He believed that there is "gian" within each of us. Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not insult its devotees by making any attempt to lay out a blueprint for spiritual, ethical and moral practice.

He gave us this view of ourselves as moral creatures. He believed we could figure this out without a lot of supervision.
  • There is only one God for all the peoples of the world
  • All are equal before this one God
  • To respect all beings and to protect the weak.
  • To live by one's honest labour and enterprise - Kirat Karni
  • To remember the gift of life from the Almighty and to rely on Him only
  • To engage in regular remembrance of God - Naam Japna and Simran
  • One must live the life of a householder - committed to Selfless service (Sewa) to the community
  • To shares one's wealth with the needy - Wand ka Chakna
  • To be vigilant and defend one's life from the evil internal forces - Lust (Kham), Anger (Krodh), Greed (Lobh), Attachment (Moh), and Ego (ahankar).
  • To promote positive qualities both personally and among the community. To embrace Sat (Truth); Daya (Compassion); Santokh (Contenment); Nimrata (Humility); and Pyare (Love) as positive qualities of life.
It seems that because the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji lacks any clarity on what is and is not permissible for Sikhs, the Sikh community were compelled to formulate their "code of conduct" in the Rehyat Maryada which was not fully approved until 1945.

Instead of leaving the compilation of these rules and edicts to the whims of the Sikh followers (who are mere humans after all and subject to their own interpretations according to their desires), why weren't these guidelines explicitly contained in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and failing that why did not one of the 10 Gurus that lived amongst the Sikhs for hundreds of years formulate it?
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  #209 (permalink)  
Old 06-Apr-2010, 09:44 AM
Tejwant Singh's Avatar Tejwant Singh Tejwant Singh is offline
 
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCurious View Post
It seems that because the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji lacks any clarity on what is and is not permissible for Sikhs, the Sikh community were compelled to formulate their "code of conduct" in the Rehyat Maryada which was not fully approved until 1945.

Instead of leaving the compilation of these rules and edicts to the whims of the Sikh followers (who are mere humans after all and subject to their own interpretations according to their desires), why weren't these guidelines explicitly contained in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and failing that why did not one of the 10 Gurus that lived amongst the Sikhs for hundreds of years formulate it?
Just Curious ji,

Guru fateh.

It is sad to notice that you love to second guess without having knowledge of the subject.

As someone said," Make knowledge your best friend rather than your worst enemy".

It is a shame to see that you have chosen the latter. The choices we make in our lives shape our character.

Regards and good luck in your journey in whichever religion you follow and is too insecure to share it with us.

Tejwant Singh
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  #210 (permalink)  
Old 06-Apr-2010, 11:57 AM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

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Just Curious ji

I do have to stand with Tejwant Singh ji in his response to you.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8803

I have just explained to you that Sri Guru Granth Sahib serves as the divine light which clears away doubt and delusion. Light brings clarity, not confusion. Guru Granth is a teacher who empowers students. It is not like many other scriptures which contain rules for living from dawn to dusk. Guru Granth brings freedom not enslavement.

The Sikh Rehat Maryada was not formulated to compensate for any lack of clarity in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. It importance to Sikhs was historically political, and one can read it almost as a set of by-laws that govern the panth. By virtue of the Sikh Rehat Maryada, the panth was able to constitute itself as an organized entity with a discernible identity in the eyes of the law. The logic of Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the framework for the Sikh Rehat Maryada, and gives the SRM its internal logic and consistency.

So there is no way to argue that somehow the Sikh Rehat Maryada corrects for deficiencies in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. And I am actually stunned that you read or heard somewhere that it does so.

Please seek out threads here at SPN where the history of the SRM is discussed. I hope it is an eye-opener for you.
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