Question on Sikh Marriage

may2009 · #1 (**permalink**) 24-Dec-2010, 13:57 PM

hi, i have a question
Ive read in many religious articles and heard in many Kathas that Sikhs and Waheguru Ji rejects the cast and creed system yet still many people believe that one should marry someone of their own cast, even if they are both sikh. Is this a tradional concept or a religious one? Does Waheguru Ji strictly forbid marriages of differnet casts?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/love-and-marriage/33702-question-on-sikh-marriage.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33702
please give me replies
Thank you
*

Randip Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 24-Dec-2010, 18:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by may2009

hi, i have a question
Ive read in many religious articles and heard in many Kathas that Sikhs and Waheguru Ji rejects the cast and creed system yet still many people believe that one should marry someone of their own cast, even if they are both sikh. Is this a tradional concept or a religious one? Does Waheguru Ji strictly forbid marriages of differnet casts?
please give me replies
Thank you

The caste system and marrying into caste is a traditional one, and is nothing to do with the Sikh faith.

I think the caste system has prevailed on the basis to maintain order in the village hedgemony.

For example, a woman from a farming background would be pretty useless in helping in a household of potters. She would not know, where to get the clay, what type of clay etc etc. Nowadays, as the villages breakdown, so do the barriers.

Sikhism, allows any caste to marry any caste.

may2009 · #3 (**permalink**) 24-Dec-2010, 18:43 PM

Thank you Randip Singh Ji

If anyone has more views on this topic, please do post them up, I have a presentation due in which I need to refer to as many ideas as possible so your replies will be very helpful! Thank you!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33702
Hoping to see more views

spnadmin · #4 (**permalink**) 24-Dec-2010, 22:27 PM

may2009 ji

We have many threads in which caste is discussed. Search under the words "girlfriend" "parents" "engage" "boyfriend" "marry" "advice" using our search tool in the upper left corner. Make sure you set the menu for the second option, "search in every post."
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33702

The topic has been discussed extensively, and Randip Singh ji has often spoken on this issue.

Soul_jyot · #5 (**permalink**) 25-Dec-2010, 01:17 AM

Caste and Sikhism
By Madan G Singh

Sikhism is supposed to be a radical religion free of caste. But this has not happened and caste remains a factor that cannot be ignored in this reformist religion. The Sikhs can trace their genesis to the first Sikh Guru Nanak in the fifteenth century. Over a period of time 9 Sikh gurus followed Nanak with the last Guru Gobind forming the Khalsa. The tenth guru created the Khalsa with a view to do away with the caste system and usher in universal brotherhood.

Hinduism we know despite its immense philosophy of life and death has a number of ills that have over the years been magnified by the proponents of the Hindu religion themselves. Notable is the caste division that by itself is difficult to explain. How come a religion classifies man as per the status of his birth? Thus 4 classes are recognized in Hinduism with the Brahmins being the highest caste. Castes cannot be interchanged and a man born in a particular will remain in that cast till his death.

Gandhi and a host of reformists tried to obliterate the caste system but unfortunately they failed. The caste system is so well entrenched in the Hindu ethos that this by itself is the biggest stumbling block for the Hindu religion to become more acceptable to all and sundry. Hence conversions of the lower casts to Islam or Christianity are very much in vogue. An example is Dr Ambedekar the leader of the lower cast Hindus (untouchables) who along with his followers en masse embraced Buddhism.

When the Great Guru Gobind Singh carried out his baptisms on Baisakhi day his aim was to create a uniform religion that would encompass all people and do away with the caste system. But the Sikhs over the years have not really done away with the caste system and it remains an all pervading fact of this religion. The Sikhs are divided into a number of castes with the jats and khatris considering themselves the higher castes. This is difficult to explain in the light of the teachings of the Sikh gurus. There are also other castes like the Ramgariahs (carpenters), and mazabhi sikhs. These are the scheduled cast Sikhs. One cannot accept how there can be lower cast Sikhs.

The Sikh religious leadership has unfortunately not been able to give the lead in this matter. The cast system has become an all pervading aspect of the Sikh religion. There are cases where a Jat Sikh will never intermarry with a scheduled cast Sikh. This is not what the Sikh gurus had envisioned. They had propagated a class less Sikh society. But it has not happened and the Sikhs are just like their Hindu brethren who are dominated by caste.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33702

With the advent of the twenty first century this caste system is certainly an anomaly. But the Indian government dominated by the concept of vote bank politics has sanctified caste. There are now backward and most backward castes for which reservations have been made in all spheres of life that include jobs and education.

But whatever the government may do, the Sikhs on their own must rid themselves of these castes and pave the way for a classless religion as envisioned by the Sikh gurus. But that is a tall order in present day India.

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Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33702
Personal note: The major road-block is that our religious leaders do not practice what they preach. Their attitude is "do what I say, not what I do!"
They merely pay lip-service to the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The Sikh leadership is controlled by politics ( getting closer to RSS/BJP ), not the religious / spiritual teachings of our Gurus. Thus they have copied & implemented very effectively the "British Raj" motto: DIVIDE & RULE !

ac_marshall · #6 (**permalink**) 25-Dec-2010, 21:13 PM

Sat Sri Akal!
Randip Singhji has provided the simplest and most practical explanation I've ever come across regarding the origins of caste system.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33702
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33702
Occupations and trades would have become hierarchical in the ancient days. A farmer would have taught his son farming, a potter would have taught his son pottery, a carpenter would have taught his son carpentry and gradually this hierarchy would have emerged into a social order. Probably, there were very few folks with knowledge of reading and writing. These very few would have just taught their sons and daughters to read and write and that would have formed the basis of higher and lower castes. With passage of time, this would have undergone an evolution and resulted in the present day social injustices and rigidity.

At various periods of time prophets like Lord Ram, Lord Buddha, Lord Mahaveera, Bhakti and Sufi Saints preached righteousness and equality of human race. These were better said than practiced.

Sikh Gurus upheld the principle of Universal Human Fraternity. Equality of the entire human race is a primary tenet of Sikhism. Any human being is allowed to enter and pray in a Gurudwara and involve in Langar.

Today, though there are widespread protests against caste system in India it still exists at large for political reasons. No political factor in India yields as many votes as caste.

Ambarsaria · #7 (**permalink**) 26-Dec-2010, 03:02 AM

If I may quote from your post,

"Today, though there are widespread protests against caste system in India it still exists at large for political reasons. No political factor in India yields as many votes as caste."
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33702

Some of the biggest religions in numbers support caste or creed officially (JMO or understanding):

Hindus: Caste system is deeply embedded in brahmin guidance/control and historically and greatly practiced
Jews: Jews marrying non-Jews greatly frowned upon and acceptance and conversion into Judaism asked for
Christians: Catholics and protestants greatly control and frown upon inter-marriage
Islam: Sunni and Shia greatly and strongly look down upon inter-marriage
Sikhs: Sikhism officially denies but as others have posted marrying in creed is looked at more positively

Accentuating all of the above though is sexual discrimination. In most scenarios, bridegroom (men) is looked at less harshly for inter-marriage versus brides (women).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33702

In North America there is also stigma about color marriages like a black man marrying a white or other color women and more from the woman's family side.

Lot of it unfortunate but continues.

Sat sri akal.

punjabipredator · #8 (**permalink**) 28-Apr-2012, 11:05 AM

Waheguru forbids and people should move away from caste and creed it all comes down to social and not really religious